Once Saved Always Saved or Perseverance of the Saints

Eternal Security, the belief that when a person is genuinely converted to salvation by putting their faith in the finished work of Christ, that they are kept by the power of God and sealed by the Holy Spirit whereby it is impossible for them to lose that salvation and be separated again from the love of God. Although one may sin, as all do, following conversion, unconfessed sin is dwelt with by God through chastisement and not the loss of ones gift of salvation.

Within the camps of Eternal Security believers, there lies in this corner Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) and in this corner Perseverance of the Saints (POTS). At face value one might assume that they mean the same thing just different terminology. But that, my friend, would be an incorrect assumption, for they are very much different. Whereas the ends may meet as the individual crosses over into glory unable to lose his salvation, the means or actions by which he took while on this trip up the narrow road is indeed different.

For the sake of length and clarity, I will do my best to simplify both corners without a multitude of words. This is not a defense of either, but a simple act of trying to show that by no means are they the same. Please feel free to express your thoughts and correct me if you believe my understanding to be wrong.

Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS)
This position holds that a person may be genuinely saved by Christ and become a born again believer. Although saved, one may then return back into their fallen sinful state as if they had never been regenerated. They may have a lifestyle of the unsaved, yet because at one point in their life the trusted Christ, regardless of how they live their life or die, they are saved forevermore. An example would be while witnessing to a person they bow their head and ask Christ to save them, yet they never come to church or display any Christian qualities for the rest of their lives. This position claims that “if they really meant it”, then regardless that they never acted as a Christian, they are indeed one by virtue of them at one point in their life asking Christ to save them. No one can 100% say that they are saved or are not saved, by ones actions, for only God knows our hearts and if someone has actually asked Him to save them then they are indeed saved.

Perseverance of the Saints (POTS)
This position agrees that a person is genuinely saved by Christ and becomes a born again believer. It also agrees that nothing, including sin, can separate a believer from the love of God and that it is impossible for one to fall from grace. Where this camp disagrees is that a true believer cannot and will not return to or remain in their previous unregenerate lifestyle. Not that a believer will be sinless, but that their lifestyle will become and remain that of a person striving to serve God, rather than that of a lost person disobeying God. It is not the individual which causes this, but the working of God within them. Lifestyle of the believer appears to be the difference. Because of the work of God within them, the believer’s desires shall be to serve God, even though they may faultier, yet they never turn to rejection of God, or a total non-desire, and back into their depravity. Although they may agree no one can know 100% who is and is not saved, one can know them almost positively by their fruits, their works and lifestyle.

I have been told that my thinking above is incorrect, but I have sat under teaching that believes one may be saved without acting like a Christian, whereas the others says when one is saved they will act like a Christian. In my opinion that is not the same teaching...

Further reading…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints

Help Thou Mine Unbelief

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

We read in Mark 9, after returning from the “mount of transfiguration”, Christ was confronted by a father who had a son with a dumb (deaf/mute) spirit. This son had been possessed and tormented by this foul spirit from childhood. The man asked Christ for compassion and help. Christ asked the man if he believed. The man didn’t say “yeah” with a shallow meaning, but “straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief”. Christ indeed helped.

Help Thou Mine Unbelief! Help Thou Mine Unbelief!

If you don’t know Jesus Christ as Savior, please cry out to Him today. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. [John 6:37]

If you are in the valley of despair and doubt, cry out to Jesus Christ today. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [Matthew 11:28-29]

You don’t have to feel alone, for Christ has said; I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. [Hebrews 13:5]

Are you feeling – I don’t know what to do?

Cry out: Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

What do you have to lose, but your sin and sorrows.

Church Discipline, On the Rise?

According to an article from BP News [here], there is a rise in church discipline among Southern Baptist. I find this interesting because I don’t recall even the concept often mentioned at all. Although I have heard the gossip of so and so doing this and that, I don’t usually hear any talk about church discipline or actually going to speak to the person for that matter. I guess it is easier to talk about someone than talk to someone.

As the article states, outlined in Matthew 18, we can find the order of church discipline.

[Step One - Individual]
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

[Step Two - Witnesses]
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

[Step Three - Church]
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Also contained in the same chapter is Christ’s idea of forgiveness [seventy times seven] with a warning [So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.]. In all things, even in church discipline we must remember charity [1 Corinthians 13], and not simply wrath.

Church discipline is supposed to lead one to repentance and again to embrace fellowship with one another. It is not meant for getting rid of people that “don’t think like me”. It should evolve clear biblical sin that one refuses to repent of. To me, it also takes more than just the pastor, the entire church needs to be prayerful and spiritually minded to put away gossip and have genuine concern for both the church and the individual(s).

What do you personally think about church discipline? Should we have it? Have you ever seen it or been apart of it? Express your views.

Do I Have Charity?

Charity: not just words, but love in action

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1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

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Well - do you? Judge thyself and change as necessary.

Passive Acceptance, Lazy Brute Force (Pt. 2)

Why do you believe what you believe? Why do you disagree with others that believe differently? We need to consider this concerning our biblical thinking, so that we may be a better witness and testimony for Christ and a better Christian in our daily walk.

Lazy Brute Force
What is usually your first plan of action when presented with someone that disagrees with you? Is it to coward down or to come out fighting? What about honest debate, mingled with a hint of charity? Do you quickly say, “You are wrong because you are a (insert a denomination, pastor, school, etc.)” or “I have always believed this way, so you are wrong to think differently”? Yeah, you might not say them out loud, but do you think them? Remember simply because you believe it does not make it right, and because they believe it does not make it wrong; the Word of God is the final authority. Sometimes we may need to consider what the other person is saying, get up from the couch and television, blow the dust off our Bibles, and take a look inside to see what we find. And don’t forget to pray and ask the Spirit to give you godly wisdom and grace to accept the knowledge that you may be given. I am afraid that too often, it may be, we take offence to the fact that someone is challenging our beliefs, and since we have never really taken the time to study them out for ourselves, all we are left with is Lazy Brute Force to reply with.

Am I saying that one should listen, consider, and test each belief that one hears from others that disagree with them? Again, if you cannot personally present clear scripture as to the fact that what they present is unbiblical, then yes I would say it would be a disservice to yourself and others you may encounter if you do not consider taking the time to study it.

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** And don’t forget charity. **

Proverbs 3:7; Acts 17:11; Ephesians 4:11-16; 1 Corinthians 13; 2 Timothy 2:15-16; 1 John 4:1

Passive Acceptance, Lazy Brute Force (Pt.1)

Why do you believe what you believe? Why do you disagree with others that believe differently? We need to consider this concerning our biblical thinking, so that we may be a better witness and testimony for Christ and a better Christian in our daily walk.

Passive Acceptance
Do you simply believe something because dad and mom or grandma believes it? Is it because your denomination, your preacher, or Sunday school teacher has said it is so? I am not saying that they are all wrong, but in and of itself, because one believes it does not make it so. We have a wonderful Book from God, called the Bible; it is God’s Word and should be the final authority as we grow in knowledge and wisdom in our walk as a child of God. Our question should be, “Does it match what the scriptures say”, not does it match what so and so says it means. Don’t get me wrong, we need godly parents, pastors, teachers, and friends and a wealth of knowledge is taught and learned through fellowship we have with each, but the standard of Truth lies within the Word of God alone, whereby all our convictions and beliefs should be judged. Pray, read, study, and meditate on God’s Word, don’t just sit there in Passive Acceptance of everything you are told.

Am I saying that one needs to question every belief they have? If you cannot personally give a testimony of it in scripture, then yes I would say it would be a disservice to yourself and others you may encounter if you do not consider taking the time to study it.

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** And don’t forget charity. **

Proverbs 3:7; Acts 17:11; Ephesians 4:11-16; 1 Corinthians 13; 2 Timothy 2:15-16; 1 John 4:1

When Sight Is Too Late

Sometimes we hear people say, “If God is real, why can’t we see Him” or “Why doesn’t He show Himself”? It should come as no surprise, for mankind is very much a sight oriented creature. “See it, to believe it” theology seems to be bound somewhere inside the very core of our DNA.

Scripture says that we are to put faith in Christ, which indeed is against our desire of wanting to see, but we must remember that there were plenty of those which physically saw Christ (even religious leaders) yet denied Him as the Messiah and Savior of lost man. Sight does not guarantee belief or acceptance.

But, because we serve a holy, just, and loving God, He will indeed give people what they have cried out for: “Show yourself!” “Here am I”. The problem will be that Sight Is Too Late.

Revelation 6:12-17 speaks of mankind getting their request answered, for they would now be able to see the Creator. Did they embrace Him; do they welcome Him into their lives and hearts?

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

But I thought the cry was “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

Of a much greater concern is where one may find themselves in the end, if they refuse to accept salvation by faith in Christ, to have sins forgiven, and fellowship restored with God at the present. (Matthew 7:22, 23; Revelation 20)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Indeed we shall all see God, for it is written, “every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” Just don’t withhold putting faith in Christ for the sake of not physically seeing Him, for at the judgment, Sight Is Too Late.

Reasons Why One 'Might' Be Spiritually Challenged

1. One does not know Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.
2. One does not believe that the scriptures are God’s Word to man.
3. One does not strive to live in obedience outlined in the scriptures.
4. One does not repent and ask forgiveness for sin.
5. One does not have a prayer life.
6. One does not read, study, and mediate in the Word of God.
7. One does not maintain fellowship with other believers.

Any number of these things I have listed, along with others that you may know of, can cause any of us to be Spiritually Challenged. Judge yourself and see which areas you need improvements and what areas you may be able to help others in. We all need to grow as Christians. We should make Christianity our lifestyle and not just a name tag that has no bearing on who and what we really are on the inside.

Plant, Water, Trust

I have never been a farmer, per say, but I have planted seeds as a child and plants as an adult around my yard. As a child we were taught to plant the seed in good soil, water it but not too much, and make sure it is in the Sun to let it grow.

As a Christian, I believe we have lost sight of the simplicity found in that learning we received as a child. Sometimes I believe we spend too much time prodding and over watering the seed, tilling at the soil, and forgetting that it needs the sun to grow; so, we continually muscle it because we don’t or can’t see it growing.

We can hear the cry, “Calvinism is wrong because it forces man against his will”, but we will talk (to and down) to someone till we are blue in the face trying to convince them, against their will, that they need to “pray and ask Jesus to come into their hearts” - right now! And God forbid that they deny us that pleasure, we will shake the dust from our garments and gladly hand them over to Satan, and all the while walking away with our head held high that we have done “our duty”, a great service unto the Lord.

Scripture says in 1 Corinthians 3:
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

We are to plant, we are to water, but God gives salvation when, where, and how He wants. Just as with our little gardens, we may do all the right things by planting and watering, but without the Sun, will we really see much of a crop? We can keep tilling up the ground, playing with the seed, drowning it in water, but all is for naught without the Sun doing its job. Did you get that? It’s job.

Our job is to witness; God’s job is to save. Salvation is not by us, but by God. God’s Word, the gospel, is the power of God unto salvation [Romans 1:16], not us and/or our presentation.

By planting and watering the seed (the gospel) through witnessing of the truth, by the moving of the Holy Spirit, through the love we have being now in Christ, we are being obedient to God. By our obedience we shall be given reward by God for our honest, pure labor done selflessly for the cause of Christ. Our job is to live a life honoring and pleasing to God.

God’s job, or power, is shown by taking our frail attempts at obedience through the planting and watering of the gospel and opening the eyes, ears, and mind of the unregenerate to see the marvelous light of Jesus Christ where one finds the forgiveness of sins.

Jacob Have I Loved, Esau Have I Hated

I am sure most recognize this snippet from Romans 9:13. I am also guessing that the reader is now saying, “I know where he is going with this”, but I may surprise you so please continue.

If you don’t know the story of Jacob and Esau, please take the time and start reading in Genesis 25. You most likely will find yourself in one of these brothers, at least at some point in your life, and some good lessons can be learned from their examples.

It should not be hard to see why God could say, “Esau have I hated”. We are born sinners, and as sinners we do not believe in God and we reject the truth found in Jesus Christ. We are indeed the enemies of God, for we cleave to sin and fail to repent and turn to God in obedience. We lack the faith necessary for salvation in that we trust in self and deny the Savior as the only way, truth, and life.

What we should find amazing is that God could say, “Jacob have I loved”. Study the life of Jacob, and one will find just how amazing it is. We, as Christians, should also look at our own lives in this light. God didn’t look down from heaven and love us because of who and what we were, but “God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” [Romans 5:8]. It is amazing that a holy and just God could look upon sin and depravity of a rejecting creation and still have enough love to send “his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” [John 3:16]. Not to mention a despised and rejected Savior, Jesus Christ, which loved fallen man enough, in obedience to the Father, was slain for our offences, yet was raised for our justification [Romans 4:25].

So next time you hear someone say they are too bad for God to love or save, remind them that so were you, and that God loved the world enough to send His Son, Jesus Christ the Savior, that through Him sinners might become saints.

And when pride begins to show its ugly head, boasting that you have achieved, and how much holier you are than that lost sinner, remember where Christ found you; It wasn’t in the holiest of holies dressed in fine linen, but in the mire of depravity and sin “wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked”.

1 John 4:19, We love him, because he first loved us.

Why Me?

Who has never asked the question, “Why me”, when it comes to something that has taken place in our lives that we find depressing, catastrophic, unfair, or anything that we believe should not have come our way? The alternative, when sometime good happens to us, which may also be unfair (meaning we didn’t deserve it) we usually don’t hear, “Why me”, but “Thank you” or “I deserved it”. I would like to pose three things to think about next time either yourself or one of your friends have something happen in their lives to cause one to ask, “Why me”.

[1] I believe that some things happen to the unbeliever to bring them to Christ. It is ashamed to say, but some people seem to need drastic measures in their life to bring them to the place where they see their need for Christ as Savior. It is easy for the unbeliever to further reject God, but a healthy fear of God can draw them to Him in repentance. The fear is not to cause one to run from God, but to run to God for forgiveness and protection from His wrath. But also the love of God can cause them to run to Him for peace and comfort found only in faith in Christ. [Job 28:28; Matthew 11:28]

[2] I believe that when a Christian is disobedient in lifestyle, as in acting as a lost person by knowing what God has said but is living in open rebellion to it, God indeed will chasten them. God does not do this out of meanness, but out of love. As a loving father desires to see his child do well and enjoy good things, so much more is God the Father to His children. One should not get mad at God, but come to Him in repentance and obedience. [1 Corinthians 11:32; Hebrews 12]

[3] I believe that some things happen to Christians that are for examples to others, and not based on anything wrong they may have done. It is a test of faith, which brings them closer to God, and allows others (both believers and unbelievers) to see Christ through their obedience and character through unpleasant and sometimes unexplainable situations in life. [James 1:3; 1 Peter 1:7]

Regardless of which situation you find yourself, the thing to remember is that putting your trust in God is where we should start. Point the unbeliever and remind the believer of the grace and mercy found in God through the Savior Jesus Christ. [Romans 8:28]

Mixed Breed: Angels & Mankind (Gen. 6 alt view)

This was sent in from a good pastor friend of mine and although we disagree about angels here, I believe it is a very good read and he supports it with scripture. Most will most likely find themselves following this view varried over what I have written in my last post. I have added a few notes of my own in blue. Please enjoy.

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A reoccurring theme throughout the Old and New Testament is that believers are not to marry unbelievers. To do so would lead, in most cases, to corruption of godly morals and principles and there are examples of this in the Scriptures. King Solomon and his wives who lead him into idolatry. King Ahab and his marrying of Jezebel, In Malachi chapter 2; 10-16 the issue is addressed, In Ezra the daughters of the land were taken and were put away in repentance when the children of Israel returned to the Lord. Even some of the priest were considered corrupt because their blood lines were not pure (read Ezra Chapters 9-10) and of course, there is the passage you have chosen: Genesis 6 is another example of godly principles and values being lost through the marriage of believers and non- believers---that is why God said don't do it! (II Corinthians 6:14). The word Seth means appointed. Adam and Eve were given another seed (son) instead of Able whom Cain slew. Genesis 6:25. I think that does mean that Adam and Eve were given a son with a likeness of Abel. Personally, I think that was spiritually. Abel offered a more respectable sacrifice than Cain, Seth would have done like wise. Now, I know there is no biblical support for that other than Genesis 6:26 that after Seth bore Enos, then men began to call on the name of the Lord. I think call means to turn to or at least acknowledge. When the sons of God saw the daughters of men, I believe that it is referring to a godly race and the godly were corrupted by the ungodly. 1 rotten potatoe in a bag will make you think that all the potatoes are bad---the stink of one corrupts the rest. Same is true when Godly principles and values are compromised---America is a prime example of that. I do not believe the sons of God were angels, but if you do, you are in good company because I know many great people who think the same way---I just do not think it is right :-)

Yes, we can agree with the birth of Enos scripture declares men began to call on the name of the Lord, but I don't find scriptural support that all the lineage of Seth was godly and all the lineage of Cain was ungodly. Also, within the white pages, were Cain, Able, and Seth Adam and Eve's only male children? Although my friend does not agree about angels here, the fact that scripture clearly teaches against the saved and unsaved joining in marriage is undeniable.

You say that the case is weak against such a view, well, It is no more weak than the argument that these sons of God were angels, but the later seems to make far more sense. You asked: "And why would the joining of a saved person and a lost person produce giants and “mighty men which were of old, men of renown”? the word giants does not refer in this passage to men of great stature, it refers to men of status. I think that some of the worlds most deceptive men where of such; Hitler and Stalin were men of status and are renown, but there are others who are not so cruel and even fly under the banner of Jesus Christ, Benny Hinn, Jessie Duplantis and yes I will say it, Joel Olsteen. These are men of status who are deceiving and leading people away from the knowledge of God.

The view that I find weak is the thought that all the lineage of Seth was godly and all the lineage of Cain was ungodly.

As for God placing an enmity between Christ and Satan and causing men to sin and rebel, there is some truth to what you say. Because of sin, we are enemies of God. For those in Christ that enmity has been taken away (Romans 5). But, I think the Seed of Satan and the seed of the woman (the Messiah) go much further than just believer and unbeliever. Satan's seed is not just the unbeliever but also the Anti-Christ who is Satan incarnate. Christ (who is God incarnate) willl crush his head! He defeated Satan at the Cross through the resurrection from the dead and He will ultimately defeat him and cause Satan to be bruised under the feet of the saints of God---Romans 16:20.

What exactly are you suggesting here? What exaclty is meant by "the Anti-Christ who is Satan incarnate"? That he produces a seed, that he comes in the flesh, or will indwell (possess) an individual?

I can't follow your logic that it is God's fault that we sin and rebel against Him, but I can follow the fact that we won't we can't come to God. God must come to each of us and for those who are saved, God takes the initiative and the course of action. I think you would be hard pressed to make our sin and rebellion God's fault. You will have to twist a lot of Scripture to do that. It is this type of teaching that turns good people into hyper-Calvinist saying: it doesn't matter what I do, I do what I do because God made me this way and if God wants me to change He will change me. . . That puts no responsibility on the individual which violates much Scripture. I do not think the teachings on the Sovereignty of God were ever meant to be taken to such extremes. It was given to comfort the hearts and minds of God's people so they could learn to trust and worship Him no matter what! Not for a license to sin.

I did not clarify myself properly, it was supposed to be posed as a question and not as a fact that it is God's fault that we sin and rebel. We are sinners because Adam disobey God and has pasted that depravity down to all mankind, yet I still believe that the enmity (the punishment for sin as one put it) does cause us to run and rebel from God instead of causing us to run and cleave to God. I would never on purpose take the personaly responsibility of sin off of man and place it on God.

Just my take for what it is worth.

Thanks. Good stuff!