I Used To Be a Christian, I Promise

On an atheist blog (yeah, I’ve been visiting one) I posted this comment which many may disagree with, so I decided to post my comments here and hopefully some will pay a visit to explain why they believe I am wrong.

I said:

It appears that some people here claim they used to be Christians.

My concern is not with whether or not a person believes they have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior by grace through faith, but the words used to be a Christian.

What I mean is that biblically speaking, if a person does repent of sin and by faith accepts Christ as Savior; they are in fact saved at that very moment and become what is known as a Christian. As a Christian we are to following the Word of God (Bible) as our authority, even if it means going against the traditions of men that also claim to be Christians.

Baptist, which I am, believe we are saved by faith alone, we are baptized in obedience (without it effecting our salvation one bit), and that tongues are not for today, which most fail to follow 1 Corinthians 14 anyway.

When one says that they used to be a Christian, they are immediately placed into one of two categories:

1] They actually did receive Christ as Savior one day and have currently decided to turn their backs on all that they know to be true, yet are still saved.

2] They never actually received Christ as Savior and are currently still unsaved.

At the very point of salvation (this is where one has to know their own experience with Christ) - without tongues or baptism - they are sealed by the Holy Spirit [Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 4:30], they are kept by the power of God [1 Peter 1:5], cannot be separated from the love of Christ [Romans 8:33-39]. Therefore, salvation cannot be lost.

So being a Christian is because of the new birth by Christ. All the things that follow like going to church, etc. come from the new birth because one is now a Christian, they do not make one a Christian - Christ did.

Therefore if you truly accepted Jesus Christ when you say you did, then you are still a Christian today - not because you choose not to do the things the Bible says, but because Christ saved you the day you called on Him. On the other hand if you did not really accept Christ that day (and only you know) then you never were a Christian and aren't one today.

I hope this clears up what I mean, even if you disagree. Here is a verse to ponder.

2 Timothy 2:13, If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Night Clubs for Kids

Now here is a novel idea. If it isn’t bad enough that night clubs often (if not always) lead to drinking, fornication, and mostly anti-Biblical forms of activities, why not make it look pleasant, safe, and nothing wrong with it for our children under eight (8)?

Here is an article from MSNBC, here, that says:

On a recent Saturday afternoon at a grungy, darkened nightclub on Manhattan's Lower East Side, toddlers with fake tattoos jumped up and down on a crowded dance floor.

To accommodate the stroller set, nightclubs have to make a few adjustments—like making sure floors are cleared of last night's broken glass.

What good can possibility come from such? What is with us parents here in America? We’re not doing this for our kids; we are doing this for ourselves.

Capitalizing on Gen-X parents' appetite for all things hip, bands like the Terrible Twos, the Sippy Cups and the Dirty Sock Funtime Band are doing shows that make Mom and Dad feel less like June and Ward Cleaver and more like Gwyneth
Paltrow and Chris Martin.

Is it fun for the kids? Of course, but more than fun, is it right or is it harmful? Do we really believe that we can bring a child to a night club when they are eight, then expect them not to want to go when they are eighteen? Will it be just as innocent?

I suspect the POSSIBLITY will increase for them to trade in their milk for alcohol, their candy for smokes (and maybe drugs), their toys for fornication, and their giggles for cursing.

Do you find a problem with this, or am I out on a limb by myself here?

Why Do You Do What You Do?

Just a few quick questions to ask yourself today:

1] Do I read and study my Bible because I need a verse to argue with, or because I love God and want to know more about Him?

2] Do I pray always asking for something from God, without ever thanking or praising Him for what He alreay has done?

3] Do I go to church because I have to or to be seen by others, or because I enjoy the fellowship with other believers and to hear more of my Savior?

4] Do I give to my local church because I feel like I must, or because I love Him whom has given to me so much?

5] Do I sing for recognition from the claps of the congregation, or because I love my Savior and desire to praise His name?

6] Do I witness for the sake of arguing and condeming others, or for the sake of drawing those to Christ by allowing His light to shine through me?

7] Do I call myself a Christian for what God has done for me, or for what I have done for God?

8] Do I really know what others think of my Christianity, or am I too busy telling myself what it is?

Baptists and Child Abuse

An article by the Christian Post was recently brought to my attention, here. It is quite disturbing to see the actions of proclaimed Baptists being used to pose questions such as:

“It seems to me that a more compelling story would focus on the bridge between faith and abuse. Of course, I am not claiming that faith inevitably leads to abuse. However, there is reason to explore the possibility of some connection.” [Link]

Not so much that people are claiming such, but that we as Christians are bringing such a negative thought pattern toward God, our Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Scriptures.

The world has a right to say, “You are supposed to be a Christian, why are you doing that?” Even Christ said, “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” [Matthew 7:20]

We as Christians can’t just sit back and say, “Well, non Christians do it too.” Dare we make the same claim as them, “You’re no better than I am.” Indeed we are not. Do we as Christians not have the Father, Christ, and the Spirit working in us to do that which is right? We are not strong in the flesh [Romans 7:18], but in the Spirit.

Sure there are those that claim to be Christian that may only be liars or lost in their on conceits, but the true Christians should be such a light to the world that the fakes are overshadowed to the point that even the lost knows them to be but false witnesses.

As Christians we should help each other and the world with regard to our local churches. I don’t think we need a security team from the SBC coming in and searching each individual church to see what is going on, but there must be accountability.

We must have communication with our children and be on guard, for the Lord has graciously given them to us as parents to “bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.” [Ephesians 6:4]

I am not claiming that we need to be overly suspicious of everybody we are around, but we cannot be negligent in our thinking that those we consider more spiritual than ourselves are unable to sin either. Sometimes I wonder if it is simply selfishness on the part of the parent in that they send their kids off with others just so they can do as they please.

As a local church, especially of the SBC which do in fact have a Convention, we should record offences of serious type and if that individual leaves our church, I dare say, it should be made known to other churches so that they are not caught unaware. Before one stands up against such, we do have a “Letter” that is supposed to be used for such things already in place within our local churches. Is it being used correctly?

Friends we as Christians are losing the battle of winning lost souls to Christ as the world points its fingers at us saying, “If this is Christianity, I don’t need it.” God help us!

VTech Got What They Deserved?

In an article reference at an atheist blog, here, speaks of a man (I refuse to call pastor) named Fred Phelps. Granted, I have never heard of this Phelps, but if half of what this article says about his “group” is correct he should remove the name Baptist from his “church” name. I don’t think he could even be considered an Independent Baptist.

Apparently this guy planned to protest the funerals of the teachers and students that were slain by the killer. Christ may have said, “Let the dead bury their dead” [Luke 9:60], but the context was calling someone to duty whom was looking for a way to keep from service to God. I don’t remember him commissioning Christians (his people) to protest and hold uprisings at funerals.

Assumingly they have been offered more air time to reframe from actually visiting the funerals themselves, see here, by Mike Gallagher.

The articles claims, an apparently so by this Phelps’ website name is http://www.godhatesfags.com/, that:

Fred Phelps, believes the United States has condemned itself to destruction by accepting homosexuality and other “sins of the flesh.” Phelps’ daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the Virginia Tech teachers and students who died on Monday brought their fate upon themselves by not being true Christians.

The group goes so far as to say:

“The evidence is they were not Christian. God does not do that to his servants,” Phelps-Roper said. “You don’t need to look any further for evidence those people are in hell.”

My question is how can one say all the victims that perished that day were either homosexual, pro-gay rights, fulfilling sins of the flesh, are not true Christians or being true Christians, and are all in hell?

Does this mean that all those which survived at VTech or that were not involved are true Christians, not homosexuals, anti-gay rights, and do not fulfill sins of the flesh?

This group is a poor wanna-be so-called Christian group that appears to show no sign of Christ-like traits is what the news media and the world sees as Christianity.

What do you, as a Christian, plan to do about it with your own life?

Prayer In School

In the wake of the Virginia Tech incident and for years hearing the claim that by taking prayer out of school we have taken God out of school, I would like to ponder this topic today.

Has taken prayer out of school caused such incidents as that at Virginia Tech and the lack of morality we see across America today?

Honestly, I am not convinced of such. We have Christian schools and colleges that have prayer, preaching, Bible classes, teaching, and studying and ashamedly find that we have most things in common with public schools and colleges that do not have prayer and Bible in them.

For one, we should not expect the school system to be the ones to teach our children how to pray or to teach them the importance of prayer. According to scripture, this is the responsibility first to the parent [Deuteronomy 6:7; Deuteronomy 11:19], second to the church [Ephesians 4:11-12].

Although a person may be told that they cannot pray out loud where the entire school must pause for a moment of silence, they have not told the student they cannot pray at all. Does prayer actually have to be done out loud for God to hear it?

My point is not to be in favor of no prayer in school, but to point out that is not why there is a moral decline in America. Christian morality is digressing, not progressing and for this cause we are seeing a swing into an anti-God era. The more Christians preach to the lost to change while we show no change in ourselves, society will continue to decline – even if prayer were still aloud in all the schools.

Are you teaching your child how and why to pray? If not, then don’t be mad at the school system. If you are, then make sure they know that it doesn’t have to be out loud for all to see.

Remember God said it begins with His people [2 Chronicles 7:14], not the world. Do your job as a godly parent and don’t rely on the school system.

Hypocrite

hyp·o·crite - a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

I find it interesting that the definition noted above uses the words “pretends to have” then at the end adds “esp. a person whose actions belie (contradict) stated beliefs”.

Hypocrite seems to be an easy name to sling at someone when they fall short of another’s expectations. The non-religious may throw it at the religious and the religious has no problem throwing it at the religious also.

In my opinion I find it hard to consider falling short of one’s expectations to be the same as pretending.

To fall short means: to fail to reach a particular standard.

To pretend means: to appear falsely, as to deceive.

I ponder is there then any leeway or margin of error between outright pretending and simply falling short of expectation?

A Christian knows they are not perfect – well, at least should know that – since the Bible clearly teaches such. So, does one deserve to be called a hypocrite each and every time they fail to meet God’s standard of holiness and perfection?

Also then to the non-religious which also hold some type of morality, ideas, or thoughts of what they claim to be. Have they not also fallen short here and there, should they then be labeled the hypocrite?

I say then we are all hypocrites indeed.

Virginia Tech (2007) Could Have Been You or Me

Surely if you are reading this you have heard of the Virginia Tech incident. I personally cannot imagine how the families of those affected are coping with such a loss or near loss. There are those that lost spouses, parents, children, siblings, friends, classmates, and teachers.

Not being personally connected to anyone of the incident, I know it is not the same for me as it would be for one that it has personally touched. I pray that God will give comfort and lives will be moved to trust in Him during this time.

What seems to linger in my thoughts is the fact that these people were unaware. They were living life as if they had many years to go, as they should have. But in a moment, the twinkling of an eye, everything changed. Some went out into eternity while others will have this image live in them for as long as they live.

Do we ever think that today could be the day with meet Christ? I am not just talking about the lost, but also the saved.

To the one that has not trusted in Christ, I ask you to consider Him as Savior. He does not ask you to clean up your life first, but to come to Him that He may clean it up. Please trust Him today, for there may not be a tomorrow.

To the one that professes Christ, I ask that you consider you will face Christ. Will you die in your sin or will you meet Him while in service? Will you be ashamed as to where He finds you?

Pray for the people affected by this incident and pray that it will bring people to Christ!

Frustrated

Have you ever been frustrated to the point that you have to either walk away or say something you may regret later? No. You just haven’t spoken to enough people yet. Hahaha

What is the best policy when one is talking religion, politics, science, or television and the one just can’t seem to “make” the other agree or “see it my way”?

Maybe we should step back and take a moment to relax. Sometimes I think we get into discussions and all we really hear is ourselves. Instead of listening to the other side so we can intelligently agree or disagree, we often spend the time they are talking merely thinking of a “good” reply to “slam” them with.

What that leaves us with is no discussion “between” each other, but “at” each other; with both sides only hearing, “Blah, blah, blah”.

Proverbs 18:13 says, “He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.”

So next time, why don’t we, including me, listen first, then agree or disagree intelligently.

Expect the Expected

Most have likely heard the phrase, “Expect the unexpected”, but I am asking you to Expect the Expected. You may think, “That makes no sense”, but please let me explain.

When a lost person sees a child of God, or one whom claims as such, they most often expect that person to be different. Some often expect one to be perfect, without sin. Usually this leaves the unregenerate with a bad taste in their mouth concerning Christianity and hence the throwing around the name, “Hypocrite”. Is it self-righteousness or misunderstanding, it may vary, but although they may admit that they are not without error, they find it easy when a saved person stumbles to say, “I expected more from you.” Although most seem ready to pounce upon the regenerate who sins, especially openly, there does remain those which are more familiar with the closet Christian (which neither act or speak as a Christian) whom they very much expect to be no different than themselves.

On the opposite end, I feel that we as Christians may all too often expect the unexpected from the lost unregenerate person. We know that they are lost without Christ, and we will gladly tell them (surely because of love and not pride). We may even use the “trump” card, “You’re going to hell!” That just doesn’t scare many people these days.

If we read our Bibles we will see what it says about a lost person. They are “dead in trespasses and sins” [Ephesians 2:1], blinded by “the god of this world” [2 Corinthians 4:4]; do not understand or seek after God [Romans 3:11]; can not receive or know the things of the Spirit of God [1 Corinthians 2:14]; and many other obstacles do hinder them from the Truth.

If this be the case, and surely there be no one which doubts the Word of God, then why as Christians do we expect the unexpected from the lost world? Why do we expect them to embrace Christianity and cast down “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like” [Galatians 5:19-21]?

Have we all but gone mad to expect that which does move within us, indeed by the Holy Spirit, also dwells within the dead spirits of lost people? Are we all drunk with pride and high-mindedness that we can honestly claim salvation by grace through faith, yet place a yoke upon the wicked which command them to convert themselves without the Spirit of God? Is there any authority in the cry, “Obey thou God, whilst thou hate Him!”?

Dear friend, I ask that we as Christians Expect the Expected. Expect that which is born of the Spirit to act as the Spirit, and that which is born of flesh to act as the flesh. Pray and seek godly wisdom. Live in obedience to the Word of God and allow Him which is able to work through you to give desire to the wicked to come, and then my dear friend, it is then at that moment that God touches them and one can expect the unexpected – the wicked embracing that which they once hated.

Creationist, Atheist, and Morality

Morality – “conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.”
Moral – “of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong”

It has been noted in some atheist’s circles that they feel Christians promote themselves as “morally superior (maybe not perfect, but certainly better) to atheists” simply because they are a Christians.

For the moment I would like to discuss the idea of morality. Let it be noted that this particular argument will not be for/against any, but basically my thoughts of what I perceive of the issue. Feel free to share your thoughts, in good taste, and show where you agree or disagree with my view.

Two stipulations are that we are discussing morality in America and the Christian God in this context and not the other gods of cults, etc.

First, I would like to remove names and place people into three basic groups.
Group 1 = those that do not believe in God.
Group 2 = those that believe in a God, but do not serve him.
Group 3 = those that believe in a God, and do strive to serve him.

Second, please ask yourself into which group you fall so that we may proceed. There is no need to lie to yourself, for no one else will know, if you have a hard time choosing between Group 2 and Group 3. Either you do or you don’t strive to serve God. This is not a call to perfection. If you go through life doing what you like but not really wanting to hurt anyone else choose Group 2, if you go through life reading, studying, and trying to follow what is laid out in scripture choose Group 3. Group 1 is obvious.

Thirdly, please ask yourself most likely where did your thoughts of morality most likely arrive from. Did it come from your own reading or did it come from your friends, parents, family (grandparents, etc.), teachers (school or church), church (pastors, etc.), society programs (YMCA, etc.), etc.?

Most likely we have all been given the same (or mighty close) general rules when it comes to morality: don’t lie, cheat, or steal; don’t hurt or kill someone; don’t abuse children; don’t have sex with other people’s spouses. Sure there are some varied states such as sex before marriage, but more is in common than not.

The “golden rule” known as “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” seems to appear in all three Groups above, which in most cases is how one judges morality, and how they perceive themselves as a “good person”. In the groups above we find that people compare themselves to other people to distinguish how they find themselves more or less moral than another; therefore the idea of morality becomes an individual one.

By this I mean one group cannot conclude that all in another group is totally immoral or that they personally are more moral than an entire group. Such blanket statements are not made by wisdom, but by pride.

Morality in a person can and does occur with or without a conversion to salvation. For one, God (although some deny) has said that he has given us all a conscience [John 1:9], which can be seared [1 Timothy 4:2]. When one does something against morality, they feel guilty, but over time the more one does against their conscience the less they feel guilty. This is not the same as being convicted by the Holy Spirit. This is a built in process we are born with. If not, mankind would have long ago killed each other off along with creation itself. [Genesis 6:5]

[Case 1] In the mindset of all groups, it seems obvious that Group 3 should be the MOST moral. By this I mean they claim there is a God, they claim they have trusted in Christ and that he has changed them. They claim they have the Book which gives instructions on how to live right and be moral. For this reason they are easy targets for Group 1 and 2, for it is almost as if they wait in the gap for every moment to yell, “Hypocrite” when one from Group 3 falls short of morality. It is sad, but the failures of Group 3 lead to Group 1 and 2 not wanting to come over to Group 3.

[Case 2] In like manner, Group 3 proudly explains how moral they are since they follow the Book and are saved, and claim that Group 2 is only partial moral and Group 1 is immoral to the core.

Is either case real?

In reality, yes Group 3 should be acting morally superior to Group 1 and 2. Not simply because they claim to be a Christian, but because they do have a God they love and should have a desire to follow what is in his Book. Contained in the Book is the understanding that morality lies within the individual concerning obedience to the law (God’s law which covers more and may vary from man’s law) both physically and mentally. One in Group 3 realizes that God judges both the act and the motive. Group 3 should also realize that others are not the standard, but Christ is. Group 3 should not be parading around as if they have obtained for they believe it is not them but Christ which is doing the good through them and that they are very capable of immoral acts for their flesh is still corrupt and in it dwells no good thing [Romans 7:18]. Group 3 should expect Group 1 and 2 to be less biblically moral, because Group 2, although believe there is a God, they do not take time to study the Book nor live over the morality set by society, and Group 1 denies such a God and therefore denies the authority of the rules in the Book. Group 3 should have a more moral lifestyle than Group 1 and 2 for the simply fact they are to obey the laws of society and the laws of God laid out in his Book.

In reality, Group 1 and 2 will most likely be less moral than Group 3 for the mere fact that although they may follow the laws of society, the concepts and teachings of Christ found in the Book are most likely not considered or looked at. An example is sex before marriage. All of Group 3, if honest, will have to say this is immoral according to God and the Book. Whereas individuals within Group 1 and 2 may say it is bad or it is okay based on individual preference or teaching and Group 2 may site the Book, but Group 1 would not.

I apologize. At the start I did not realize that this would linger on so long.

I will close with this thought.

Although we can look at Groups and say what we believe should be the norm, the issue of morality lies in the actions of each individual person. Evidence shows that individuals in Group 1, 2, and 3 can lie, cheat, still, adultery, abuse kids, etc., etc. etc. As I stated before, it should be that Group 3 is more moral than Group 1 and 2, and Group 1 and 2 should be able to see such without crying “Hypocrite”, but Group 3 should remember that it is Christ working in them and reframe from saying “all are immoral but me.” Let it be noted that there are those in Group 1 which are more moral than some which profess Group 2 and 3 at times.

One difference should be noted and it was taught well in a movie called Time Changers. Morality is a great thing and without it mankind could not survive. Where morality comes from is what separates one from another. If morality is simply of man, then it is based on what man sees as right and wrong and can vary from person to person. If morality is based on God and his Book then it is fixed upon what he has said regardless of whether man agrees or disagrees with it.

Group 1 – I ask you to remain as moral as you can for the sake of yourself and others. I would also ask that you consider acknowledging God and trusting in Christ, his son.

Group 2 – I ask you to live that which you profess. If you believe in God then obey his Book, trust in Christ if you have not, and live a life pleasing to God.

Group 3 – I ask you to live a life that Group 1 and 2 would see Christ in you and desire to know him. Don’t let your testimony be as one that pushes them away from God.

Morality: What is the standard and where do you see yourself?

Do All Babies Go Heaven? If So, Why?

Sometime back the topic of "all babies going to heaven" came up in a group that I frequently visit. Recently a person present me with the notes they had that one had used to proved that indeed all babies go to heaven because they are innocent. Below I have color the notes in blue with my comments being in green.

Please feel free to agree or disagree and present your case.

As I begin this reply, please keep in mind that I am NOT saying all babies go to hell, some babies go to hell, or no babies go to hell. I do firmly believe ALL must go through Christ, whether baby, child, youth, or adult and therefore it is not simply because they are innocent.

Are Babies safe? Babies can not be saved in the normal sense
I really don’t understand the answer here. I am not sure what the “normal sense” means. If they are speaking of walking an isle, praying a prayer, confessing sin, etc. I guess not, but neither did the OT saints who are just as saved as any NT saint is. We must remember that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb [Luke 1:15] and Isaiah was called from the womb [Isaiah 49:1]. As mentioned later.


Are they under a special plan? Deut 1:39.. No knowledge of good and evil
To use this as a proof text that all children get to go to heaven, one could also use Moses being refused the opportunity to enter this same land as a Christian losing salvation and not being able to go to heaven – and for 1 sin.


James 4:17 Is it not sin if he doesn't know good and evil?
This verse speaks of a Christian that knows what is good and does not do it is sinning in disobedience of what God says he SHOULD do. This reference is not talking about what God has said NOT to do.


Jer 19:4-5 the small children and babies sacrificed were called innocents (clean, blameless, guiltless, exempted)
This is speaking of the fact that babies (it only says sons) had done nothing worthy to be offered as sacrifices. This is not speaking of sin, for even an adult would have been innocent of not being worthy of being sacrificed to false gods. It means it was not their choice.


I Cor 5:10 judgement according to works, sin committed during this life.
This reference is telling Christians who not to have company with. This deals with nothing concerning about babies or judgment of works.


If God sent a baby to Hell he'd be basing judgement on something else. His mercy and grace would be violated. There would be no divine judgement as the child would have no idea what he'd done.
First, mercy IS NOT giving someone something they DO deserve.
Second, grace IS giving someone something they DO NOT deserve.
If by reason we are saying babies are not “saved in the normal sense” and are “under a special plan” because they don’t “know good and evil” and we are only judged by “sin committed during this life” – it would bear to reason this person is saying they do not need mercy or grace at all, for they have done nothing wrong to require either.


God deals with his creations according to what they are and what they have done. He remains just, righteous, merciful
Adam disobeyed God, therefore a sin nature and dead spirit is passed down to every child when they are conceived, not when they reach an undisclosed time often called “the age of accountability”. There is not a single baby conceived that is innocent in the eyes of God, because fellowship has already been broken with mankind with Adam.


Sin is transgression...willful, knowingly, stubbornly choosing to cross the line. Infants and small children are not capable of this
Consider John 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So then, are we condemned because we sin or because we do not have faith in Christ? So granted, John the Baptist and Christ preached repentance to the world, for those in the world have sins to turn away from. Though repentance is not enough to save, for clearly faith in Christ is preached. Yet the wicked speak lies from the womb [Psalm 58:3].


Jer 1:5 The prophet had a special relationship with God before his birth.So did John the Baptist. If these two had died before birth would they have gone to Heaven?
This is only proof that these men were chosen by God for a purpose, not a standard of “all babies go to heaven”, especially since these did not die, but lived to obey God. What if’s don’t prove anything.


"Therefore the death of an infant is proof of its salvation" (R.A.Webb)
A statement of personal thought, with no biblical support. What about death of a 10 year old?


Luke 18:15-17 Jesus prays over the little children told disciples to forbid them not to come, to allow them
1) We know adults must come like little children
2) a child's faith is enough, the right kind, quality
3) There is a special relationship between Jesus & babes
4) "of such is the Kingdom of Heaven" Is Heaven occupied by billions ofsouls of babies?
I agree Christ told them to bring him the child and forbid them not to come. Christ did not say heaven was full of babies. He said, “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.” [17]. Christians are called the children of God. As a child puts faith if what their father says and believes him, so must we with the heavenly Father.


II Sam 12:7-10, 14-18. 23 David's child
Babies are safe because
1) they do not meet the conditions of judgement
2) God takes note of their innocence
3) Jesus claimed a special relationship with babies
This text is most likely of all the text presented that babies may all go to heaven. For we know that David went to Paradise and so met his child there. Although, it could be that God gave David special revelation as to that fact for his child alone. Both are “white page” reading at best. Even if we take the passage to conclude all babies go to heaven, it does not anywhere in the text or context state that they are received by Christ into glory based on their innocence – again, if that be the case, they need no Savior.


With that said, I truly believe that scripture teaches even babies (including aborted babies) must believe in Christ to go to heaven. Now before I draw negative feedback saying I believe they go to hell because someone says, “But they can’t get saved because they can’t hear or understand the word preached” – I gave examples of John the Baptist and Isaiah, and even David speaks of God being his from his mother’s womb [Psalm 22:10].

We must remember God is the creator, not us, therefore it is possible for the Spirit to draw babies (aborted or not) to have faith in Christ.

There is no scriptural support for one to claim babies get a free ride into heaven because they don’t know good and evil, because they are innocent of sin, and/or because they are pure – for that, my friend, would mean they need no Savior at all.

It has also been brought to my attention that babies cannot confess as Romans 10:9, 10 says they should:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We must remember this was Paul talking to those which have recently denied Christ. They must now believe and confess Him.

Also if we make this the standard, we are saying most deaf and mute are unable to get saved.

God forbid...

So I Came From a Tadpole

I recently infrequently started visiting an atheist blog and some time back I spent a couple of weeks conversing back and forth with an atheist. Admittedly I don’t know all the info surrounding atheists, but one thing is for sure, they do not believe in a Creator.

The Big Bang seems to be considered the “beginning” and evolution seems to be the means by which man now exists. But reading this article here got me thinking.

According to Wikipedia, the Big Bang “is the scientific theory that the universe emerged from a tremendously dense and hot state about 13.7 billion years ago.” Although, “Physicists do not widely agree on what happened before this, although general relativity predicts a gravitational singularity.” The read is interesting and seems to favor a sci-fi movie theme. How they can easily discount a Creator but are unable to explain where all the matter came from to “start” this random operation to actually produce intelligent design is beyond my human ability to comprehend, and their ability to figure times that it took such and such to develop leaves me highly wondering exactly how much credibility can be put in such an unknown.

So one has the option of believing Genesis 1, that God created the heaven and earth, where the atheist asks, “Then explain to me this God”, or to embrace the Big Bang which I ask, “Explain to me this something from nothing”, or simply not give a hoot. Even as one has the option of believing by faith the Genesis 1 in that God has created mankind, or one may hope in the theory that mankind was randomly created from nothing which became something over millions and m…(hold on, let me get my calculator) time.

As for evolution, there is talk of micro and macro types. Microevolution speaks of changes that stay within a species. Macroevolution speaks of changes which move one species to becoming another species. Most Christians would find it acceptable and observable to agree with microevolution, but when it comes to macroevolution the evidence is lacking. Although there are fossils that science would love to conclude that macroevolution exist, the notable proof that there are “missing links” shows that it is yet a hope and not a fact. It is often argued with viruses and moths as to the proof of evolution, but in both cases they remain viruses and moths; neither macro-evolve into some new species. The eye is a very detailed piece that speaks highly against such random chance as found in macroevolution thoughts.

Back to the article: They claim that Global “Warming will end some species”. My question is this: If evolution, as in macro, is true, then why are species dying instead of simply converting to a new species or adapting to the change in climate to survive? Surely if everything has evolve from nothing, and we are all connected to the same gene pool, and species have been evolving AND so has the climate over millions and millions of years why is it that we are not seeing evolution causing great change within species to convert to new species today?

One might believe they came from nothing, but I have faith I came from something.

God, the great I AM.

Almost, But Lost

“Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian”

In Acts 26, we have the story of Paul speaking before King Agrippa. Paul could have cried and fallen into such self pity that he would have been useless as a testimony for Christ and surely King Agrippa would have tired and sent him away, but instead Paul chose to use the opportunity to give witness to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

My dear friend Almost is not close enough. To be at the very edge of the narrow way, to gaze upon the finish line through the haze, to witness those which stride with purpose as they run the course, to wave and ponder the joy they must have, yet you yourself sit in the broad way pointed to the way of the narrow, with your eyes and ears fixed upon the glorious wonders of such a race, yet without faith you dare not cross the paths to come over, is burdensome to my heart.

Why friend do you sit when you could run, why ponder when you can know, why deny when you can enjoy, why reject when you can embrace, why feel rejected when you can be accepted, why doubt when you can have faith?

Don’t be an Almost statistic. Almost is still lost, and lost is without Christ, and without Christ there is no fellowship with God, and without fellowship with God there is no hope.

Trust him fully today, I pray that you would.

Are you in the race and know of one that is Almost? Do not leave the race by jumping to the broad way, but pray that the Spirit moves them, and bid them come to the narrow. Encourage them so they may believe, share your testimony so they may understand, bear the torch so they may follow, reach out your arms and beg them to come!

Ethnic Diversity

Who hasn’t asked the question, “Where do races come from”? It is amazing what one may hear sometimes. There was even one that made it into a magazine that someone showed me one day that was very interesting, not that is was scriptural or true, but that a “religious” group actually held this view. I currently know of three different views I would like to present now.

[1] I have heard it said that there was a race separation between the children of Adam and Eve, namely Seth and Cain.

The problem I see with this is that there are only two children mentioned and there are more than two races, so then we would have to have a division of one or both of the children to properly consider the races we have.

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[2] I have heard it said that the races came from Noah and his three sons, namely Shem, Ham, and Japheth. This view holds stronger than the Seth/Cain view for the simple fact that Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives (8) were the only survivors of the old world. It has even been said that there is only three basic races.

Whereas it may be true that there is only three basic races (yet I am not sure), I still find a problem with this view. One problem I see is that although Noah had three sons, I find it difficult to believe that he and his wife had three children that were difference races. Although it could be possible that their wives were each a different race, that leaves a lot of white page reading.

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[3] I have heard it said that races were formed at the tower of Babel. At this time the world was of one language, one speech, and I believe still the one race from Noah. Here they decided to build a tower unto heaven. The LORD decided to come down to “confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech” and “scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth”.

In my opinion, this is where scripture is the clearest of the separation/creation of races. We have a separation of language and a separation of location. Before we were able to travel as we are able in recent times, pretty much races where divided by language and location.

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Granted, it may very well be the case as in [2] that the races have come from the three sons of Noah [Genesis 10], but I believe biblically this did not take place until the tower of Babel, since at that time [Genesis 11] they were still of one language.

What have you heard and how do you agree or disagree?

Playing the Fool

Scripture declares in Matthew 5:22, “whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire”, but the fool himself is indeed headed to the chastisement and/or the wrath of God. No one should desire to be called a fool, and none should take joy in calling one as such.

Our interim pastor recently preached on this topic, so I thought I would present the points he used to share with the readers here, along with my thoughts. I believe they are important and should make us aware that we need to witness to those around us before it is too late for them, and that may be things that we need to repent of.

Today we will see four (4) classes of which the scripture calls fools:

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[1] “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” [Psalm 14:1; Psalm 53:1]

This class can be broken down into two groups, but literally they are actually only one.

[a] There is the one that claims there is no God, which is called the atheist. Within this group you have those which could care less about God and then those which work to rid the world of everything that says God. They are in need of the very God they reject, and without trusting in Christ. For in denying the Savior, they are ridding themselves of the only way to escape the wrath of God.

[b] There is the one that claims there is a God but lives as though there is none. Scripture, 2 Timothy 3:5, describes them as “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” and tells us “from such turn away”. This is both detrimental to the very soul of the lost and to the testimony of the saved. Neither are pleasing in the sight of God.

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[2] “Fools make a mock at sin”. [Proverbs 14:9]

This class can include both the saved and unsaved. To make a mock of sin is sickening in the eyes of God. We are told to depart, abhor, and repent of sin, we are never told to make fun, mimic, or encourage it. We are in a perverse generation that will be judged for endorsing, promoting, and embellishing sin instead of calling on men, women and children everywhere to repent and flee from such wickedness. “The wages of sin is death” [Romans 6:23], it is far from being something to be mocked.

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[3] The fool trust in his own works and not in the work of Christ. [Luke 12:19-21]

This class, yet saved or unsaved, is those which trust in riches of this world and lay not up treasure for the next. Scripture says, Revelation 3:17, there are those which “sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked”. Don’t let the riches of this world keep you from trusting in Christ, nor let it allow you to get cold to the things of God and forget that we are to be about His work.

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[4] “The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness” [1 Corinthians 1:18]

This class is the unsaved that fail to see the importance in trusting in the only begotten Son of God to have sins forgiven and fellowship restored with God through the finish work of Christ on the cross. They see no need of a Savior. Maybe once they have “sowed their wild oats” or come to a tragic time in their life, but not while they are young and full of energy, not while everything is going well at the office and they have plenty of money, not while they are enjoying retirement and traveling the globe, but maybe in that quiet time right before they enter eternity. My dear friend, what if you never make it there?

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If you find yourself in one or more of these classes today, it is easy to get out. Come to the risen Savior, Jesus Christ, confess yourself a sinner, repent and turn from your sin, by faith put your trust in Him that He was crucified for your sin, was buried, and was raised that you may be forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness and have fellowship with God forevermore!

Are you Playing the Fool?

Deny the flesh and embrace the Spirit!

Let today be the day of your salvation!

Easter: Eggs and Bunnies, Crosses and Tombs

As you know this Sunday, April 8, 2007 is known as Easter Sunday. As you enjoy time with your family and friends I would ask that you ponder a few things.

As Christians, are we really celebrating the risen Savior, the resurrection of Christ for our justification, or is it just a holiday in which we use His name? One might say, “That’s a crazy question, of course we are celebrating Jesus Christ on this day.”

This is what I find interesting:

1. We replace worship service preaching with music services. I am not against music, but scripture clearly says that the preaching of the cross is the power of God, not singing [1 Corinthians 1:18]. You could try and argue the point that singing is the same as proclaiming the gospel, but there may be some difficulty finding scriptural support. It is a well known fact that most people that hardly ever enter the doors of a church may visit on Christmas and Easter, so why then do we give them only singing; and maybe a five (5) minute thought and alter call?

2. We claim this day has a holiday to celebrate a risen Savior and we do it by cancelling services. Oh sure we have a small sunrise service, but often there is very few which attend. If this is a special Christian holiday, why then do we worship less than the other Sunday worship days when we hold morning and evening services?

3. We emphasize an Easter egg hunt with treats to encourage the children to come and bring their friends, so can they really concentrate on the most important story of all time, that Christ give himself ransom for the sins of man? So we have three (3) or four (4) times as many children show up this Sunday, can we really boast, since most came for candy and not Jesus Christ? “But so and so made a profession of faith.” Did they? Or was it to ensure they got to hunt for eggs. I am not saying one can not get saved through this method, but I believe my point has been made.

4. We sport our new clothes we purchased just for the occasion. Are we a little more interested in how we look and what others are wearing than how our Savior hung ashamed on the cross because of us?

5. We can find no scriptural support to consider this day to be a spiritual holiday by the words of Christ nor the apostle, yet let one say that it is based in pagan rituals or that Christ could not have died on Good Friday, and we want to gnaw and gnash at them for speaking ill of our scared day. Again, if such a scared day does exist, and it is this Sunday which we call Easter, why then do we do less for God this day than more?

Just some things to consider; If we are to be separate from the world so that they can see Christ through us, what will they see different in you this Sunday when you tell your kids the Easter Bunny came, they hunt for eggs, and the church is closed?

Easter: Good Thursday or Friday

It is easy to acknowledge Christ must have risen on a Sunday, for scripture tells us it was on the first day of the week. As for Good Friday, I think we might have a small miscalculation, as do others, in the timeline.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mark 8:31
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

I would agree that a portion of a day would count as a day, meaning I don’t believe it would have to consist of all twelve (12) or twenty-four (24) hours to be consider a day.

And counting of the days is easy.
Friday end of day (1) + Saturday all day (1) + Sunday early morning (1) = 3 days.

Where the problem lies is in how one reads Matthew 12:40. Whereas the other scriptures claim “after three days” and “in three days”, this verse adds “and three nights”. It would be easy to dismiss the “and three nights” to hold true to tradition, but should tradition override scripture?

We must remember that this is Christ speaking. Had He meant to say “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be [three days] in the [grave, tomb, etc.]” He clearly would have. This is God in the flesh, not a mere man that rambles on with no intention in his speech.

Jonah was the only sign given to that generation concerning the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ [Luke 11:29; Luke 11:30], and Jonah as in the whale “three days and three nights” not just “three days”.

Here lies the problem.
Friday all night (1) + Saturday all night (1) = 2 nights.

By this I suppose we have four choices:
1] Christ didn’t mean exactly what He said.
2] All Bible translations are in error concerning this verse.
3] Our tradition supersedes scripture.
4] Admit error.

Location of Hell Examined (Conclusion)

Conclusion:

I tried my best to simplify my belief concerning the Location of Hell, and use mostly scripture. There is a lot more concerning the issue if one would only take the time to study. Comparing science about the earth and further scripture concerning pit, earth, fire, hell, etc., I personally believe that scripture indeed clearly locates hell in the center of the earth.

Concerning one question that may arise, “If the earth is destroyed one day according to 2 Peter 3:10 for the new heavens and new earth, then wouldn’t that mean that hell is destroyed too?”

Revelation 20:14,
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


I have presented my case of scripture, it is up to you to decide if you believe scripture is telling us the location of hell is within the center of the earth or not. As admitted early, this is not a necessary belief for salvation, or a reason to break fellowship over.

All I ask is that you consider the scripture presented and consider the validity of whether the possibility exist that hell could very well be in the center of the earth. Remember before you cast it aside as a far out idea, please remember all of the supernatural things we have written within the Word of God, and ask yourself are all things possible with God.

And remember, just because I believe it does not make it so, but neither does ones unbelief make it not so.

As always, thanks for tuning in and have a nice day!

Don’t be afraid to share your beliefs with others!

Location of Hell Examined (Pt. 5)

Point 5: “The heart of the earth”, not just the grave.

There are 3 recordings of the word “paradise” in scripture.

Christ told one of the others crucified with Him that they would be together that very day in paradise.

Luke 23:43,
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Yet Christ also told the people that He would not rise for three days.
Matthew 27:63; Mark 8:31

Paul said that paradise was in the third heaven [2 Corinthians 12:4], and the apostle John says it has the tree of life and those that overcome will be able eat of it [Revelation 2:7] in the city [Revelation 22:14]. Interestingly the tree of life was in the mist of Eden [Genesis 2:9].

We know that Christ did not ascend into heaven within the three days following the crucifixion, for He told Mary that He had not as of yet on the day of His resurrection [John 20:17].

If paradise was in the third heaven (1 – where birds fly, 2 – moon and stars, 3 – God), then did Christ lie to the man on the cross with Him? No.

Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus? (I am aware than some consider this to be only a parable, which I disagree)

The rich man and Lazarus were in the same corporate location, but Lazarus was in Abraham’s bosom (rest) and the rich man was in torment. They were separated by a gulf that neither could cross [Luke 16].

As Christ died, He said He would go to “the heart of the earth” [Matthew 12:40], but not be left in hell [Acts 2:31]. Yet Christ did not tell the one crucified with Him, “We will be together today in the grave”, but “We will be together today in paradise”.

During the three days between the crucifixion and the resurrection, Christ also “preached to the spirits in prison” [1 Peter 3:18-20].

Consider Ephesians 4:8-10,
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

In the above verses, we see that Christ, at His crucifixion, He “descended first into the lower parts of the earth” and then “ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men”.

Christ did not lie, but indeed met the thief in paradise (Abraham’s bosom) that day they both died, and upon the ascension He brought with Him paradise, the saints of old, to the third heaven, whereby it was seen by Paul.

Location of Hell Examined (Pt. 4)

Point 4: Jonah and Christ.

Luke 11:30,
For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Jonah:

Jonah 1:17,
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Jonah 2:1, 2, 6,

1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,

2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.


Christ:

Matthew 12:39, 40,
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Acts 2:31,
He [DAVID] seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his [CHRIST] soul was not left in hell, neither his [CHRIST] flesh did see corruption.


Point 5: “The heart of the earth”, not just the grave.

Location of Hell Examined (Pt. 3)

Point 3: The Pit and Hell are together.

Job 33:28,
He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

Psalm 16:10, For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Isaiah 14:15,
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Ezekiel 31:16,
I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Revelation 9:1, 2, 11
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Revelation 11:7,
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 17:8,
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 20:1, 3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Point 4: Jonah and Christ.

Location of Hell Examined (Pt. 2)

Point 2: The Pit and Hell extends to the lower and nether parts of the earth with bars.

Deuteronomy 32:22,
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Jonah 2:6,
I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Psalm 86:13,
For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Ezekiel 26:20,
When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

Ezekiel 31:14,
To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.

Ezekiel 31:16,
I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Ezekiel 32:18,
Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.

Amos 9:2,
Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:


Point 3: The Pit and Hell are together.

Location of Hell Examined (Pt. 1)

Point 1: The Pit and Hell are down.

Numbers 16:30,
But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

Job 11:8,
It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Psalm 28:1,
Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Psalm 30:3,
O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Psalm 55:15,
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

Proverbs 15:24,
The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

Isaiah 5:14,
Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Isaiah 14:9,
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isaiah 14:15,
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 38:18,
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Matthew 11:23,
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.


Point 2: The Pit and Hell extends to the lower and nether parts of the earth with bars.

Location of Hell Examined (Intro)

Preface:
This post is not meant to prove the existence of hell, but is for the purpose of examining where I believe scriptural evidence points as to the location of hell. I would ask that you please reframe from arguing your current position – There is no hell - until a later date when I may post the subject of Does Hell Exist.

Purpose:
To share with others my view, with the use of scriptural support, that hell is indeed within the center of the earth.

Introduction:
For what I once thought was common knowledge appears to not be as wide spread as I imagined. Let it be noted that this is not a new idea or concept, but has actually been around quite sometime. I would ask that you please consider the concept, before just simply dismissing it on the basis that you have never heard it or that you currently believe differently. Although I believe the knowledge of hell is important, the location may not be as important and is definitely not something to break fellowship over.

Because of length I have decided to break it down into sections, or days. Hoping this will allow for separation of points, easier and quicker reading, and comments to each day to be made. Please feel free to share your pro/con points. I will limit the writing to only scripture unless necessary.

Point 1: The Pit and Hell are down.
Point 2: The Pit and Hell extends to the lower and nether parts of the earth with bars.
Point 3: The Pit and Hell are together.
Point 4: Jonah and Christ.
Point 5: “The heart of the earth”, not just the grave.
Conclusion