C.H. Spurgeon

Sinners, let me address you with words of life; Jesus wants nothing from you, nothing whatsoever, nothing done, nothing felt; he gives both work and feeling. Ragged, penniless, just as you are, lost, forsaken, desolate, with no good feelings, and no good hopes, still Jesus comes to you, and in these words of pity he addresses you, "Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out."

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Monday, February 16, 2009

Abortion: Thoughts From the Next Generation

19 comments:

BEAST FCD said...

That's taking things way out of proportion.

Why is it that no Christian will say that every day, thousands of children all over the world are dying because they have no clean water, no food, no vaccination against the most common diseases such as polio, and so on and so forth?

Sure, Christians go whine about the rights of fetuses and fertilized eggs, but they have no qualms about America sending troops to kill innocent folks, or supporting Israeli causes that kill and maim thousands of Palestinian civilians every other year. This is hypocrisy at its worst.

Beast FCD

BEAST FCD said...

And most people who have abortions are ironically religious people with no concept of contraception.

I do like to paraphrase Bill Clinton here: Abortion should be rare. It should be avoided because abortion, like other surgical procedures, do present a small amount of risk to the patient, and should be avoided if at all possible.

That is where sex education comes in. People should be taught alternatives to safe sex. The problem is, Christians want to teach sex their way: Avoiding the subject of sex altogether. This aversion to sex does more harm than good, and raises the number of child pregnancies and unwanted babies and abortions.

Beast FCD

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Beast,

Following your paragraphs:

First Post:
1. She spoke about responsibility.
2. Her context was abortion, not war.

Second Post:
1. Her view is no less worthy than your quote of Bill Clinton’s view.
2. Again, she spoke about responsibility.

I believe her presentation was very much in proportion. You disagree. Okay. Doesn't prove her points wrong.

Tim

BEAST FCD said...

It is wrong to equate abortion with murder since it assumes the mother who goes for an abortion is a murder.

The child's obviously brainwashed by religious folks to spew right wing nonsense.

Beast FCD

BEAST FCD said...

And the worst thing is, she relates an imaginary deity to an all too secular and human problem.

Social issues should always be discussed from a secular point of view, not a religious one. Invoking sky fairies complicates matters, applies unnecessary guilt and makes matters worst, as can be seen in the screwing up of sex education by religious morons.

Beast FCD

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Beast,

Fact: Abortion is the premeditated and the following through of an 'assault and battery with intent to kill,' which against the law.

Premeditated is characterized by deliberate purpose and some degree of planning.

Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact.

Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion of an embryo or fetus from the uterus, resulting in or caused by its death.

Tim

BEAST FCD said...

"Fact: Abortion is the premeditated and the following through of an 'assault and battery with intent to kill,' which against the law."

You might want to check your own Roe vs Wade law.

Abortion is not murder. Fullstop.

BEAST FCD said...

In almost all secular countries, including Singapore, abortion is not amounting to murder. Some countries ban abortion in the third trimester, although I don't really see the need since most abortions don't take place in the third trimester due to the danger posed to the mother. Third trimester abortions are usually administered when there is a deformation of a fetus. So there you go.

No, Tim, abortion is not murder. Abortion is a basic right to the mother.

Beast FCD

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

By definition abortion is murder, it is merely man's desire to turn a blind eye to such truth in an attempt to consider it otherwise.

Tim

VaQueenBee said...

Wow! That girl should go and stand before Congress and give that speech!

And yes...Abortion IS murder! It may be "legal," but that doesn't mean it is right. Abortion is the selfish act of a woman who does not (in most cases) want to own up to her own irresponsibility. In most cases, a woman considers the pregnancy an inconvenience and wants to get rid of it. Very few abortions are from what could remotely be considered justifiable reasons. It's truly sad that human beings could consider murdering an unborn child a "woman's choice."

Beast said: "No, Tim, abortion is not murder. Abortion is a basic right to the mother."

If it's not a baby, how can she be a mother?

Thanks for sharing this, Tim!

mousetrap said...

wow, that was amazing. even a twelve year old gets this. i don't understand how people do not get that ABORTION IS MURDER!!! i mean, isn't it obvious? like, if my mother had decided she didn't want me, and aborted me, obviously, i wouldn't be here. so wouldn't that make me dead? there would be millions more children in the world today if so many were not aborted, therefore all of those children are dead. it's so sad that there are so many people that no one ever had the privilege of meeting because their mothers decided they didn't want them. think about it, if a mother had a child that was, say, ten years old, and she decided she was just tired of providing for him, and then she kills the child just because she doesn't want to deal with him, that is obviously murder. but how is that any different than abortion? abortion is just the 'easy' way out of having to take care of a child. there is never a good reason for murder. i wish people could get this through their heads!!!

~mousetrap

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

'If it's not a baby, how can she be a mother?' -- very good point VaQueenBee.

And you're right mousetrap, some mothers do choose to murder their children after they are born, but interestingly society no longer claims it is 'a basic right to the mother.'

Tim

BEAST FCD said...

Folks

Once a baby is born, she is out of her mother's womb. A baby is different from a fetus: It has functioning neuro-motors, can feel pain, and is more or less a juvenile human being.

A fetus, on the other hand, is a fertilized embryo, little more than a glorified cluster of cells.

Going on and on about "if my mum aborted me I won't be here today" is useless because during the fertilization process, millions of sperm vie against one another to fertilize the female egg. Had the sperm that reached its goal be a different sperm you will also not exist on this planet. That's the way it goes. Survival of the fittest.

I wish Christians can get it into their heads: Everytime they oppose something and attempt to change society either through intense lobbying or lawmaking it tends to screw up big time. In the 1930s Christian groups tried to ban alcohol......and guess what happened. The mafia took over by selling bootlegged versions, which killed many people. When Christians tried to teach sex education, they screwed up so bad that instead of having less pregnancies teenagers ended up with more pregnancies.

Of course Christians can have their own silly opinions about everything, but their shrill cries to be heard really makes them look remarkably out of depth, out of touch and incredibly stupid.

My suggestion? Kill thy nonsense to thyself.

Beast FCD

BEAST FCD said...

To be fair, the girl gave a pretty good speech, given her age, but it is a pity that such talent is being made use of by unscrupulous religious folks who use kids as a tool to further their propaganda.

Beast FCD

mousetrap said...

ok, beast, the thing about only some sperm are fertilized and others are not, that is just how it happens. we humans don't have a choice in that. but with abortion, it's completely the human's choice. God sooooo does not intend for that to happen. He created that little baby, and he wanted it to be born into the world and bless the people around it. but then the humans go and decide, for their own selfish reasons, that they don't want that to happen.

the girl gave a VERY good speech. and it was obvious she had her own strong feelings about this subject. her parents couldn't have MADE her so passionate about it. kids can have opinions too, ya know. their parents can influence their opinions, but there comes a time when they have to decide for themselves what they believe. and i think the girl giving the speech has already decided what she believes concerning the topic of abortion. and just because it's a different opinion than yours, doesn't mean it's wrong.

~mousetrap

VaQueenBee said...

Beast said "Once a baby is born, she is out of her mother's womb. A baby is different from a fetus: It has functioning neuro-motors, can feel pain, and is more or less a juvenile human being.

A fetus, on the other hand, is a fertilized embryo, little more than a glorified cluster of cells."

This is so very untrue. There is documented facts that tell us the baby can feel pain as early as 8 weeks, and definitely by the end of the first trimester.

Here is some interesting information for you to read:

"In 1984 President Reagan said: "When the lives of the unborn are snuffed out, they often feel pain, pain that is long and agonizing." President Ronald Reagan to National Religious Broadcasters, New York Times, Jan. 31, 1984

This provoked a public reaction from pro-abortion circles and a response from an auspicious group of professors, including pain specialists and two past presidents of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

They strongly backed Mr. Reagan and produced substantial documentation. Excerpts of their letter (2/13/84) to him included:

"Real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changes in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering work of the late Sir William Lily — the father of fetology."

We state categorically that no finding of modern fetology invalidates the remarkable conclusion drawn after a lifetime of research by the late Professor Arnold Gesell of Yale University. In The Embryology of Behavior: The Beginnings of the Human Mind (1945, Harper Bros.), Dr. Gesell wrote, "and so by the close of the first trimester the fetus is a sentient, moving being. We need not speculate as to the nature of his psychic attributes, but we may assert that the organization of his psychosomatic self is well under way."

Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground. Willke, J & B, Abortion: Questions & Answers, Hayes, 1991, Chpt. 10"

The problem with pro-abortion activists is that they refuse to listen to the facts, or tell their followers the truth. Abortion is murder and the baby does feel pain. Period. I truly wish it didn't cause pain since there are so many babies being brutally murdered every day.

And by the way, it's not only Christians who oppose abortion. There are many non-Christians who want to protect the unborn child. No matter how "silly" I may sound to you, I will continue to be Pro-Life, Pro-Child, Pro-Elderly, etc, etc, until my dying day!

As Ronald Reagan said "I've noticed that everyone that is for abortion has already been born."

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

You are right VaQueenBee, we (including Beast) have already discovered that there are even Atheists which believe abortion is wrong.

See post:
Does Pro-Life = Christianity?

See link:
Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League Homepage

Tim

BEAST FCD said...

Lol Beast

I have never said abortion was "wrong".... I said abortion should be rare.

Abortion cannot be banned, nor should it be deemed as an ethical misdeed because it is the fundamental right of a woman to keep or destroy something that is in her body.

The girl may have made an impassioned speech, but she obviously is too young to know what she is talking about, judging by her infantile and silly speech about imaginary deities.

And President Reagan.......everyone knows what Republican morons can say to get religious votes.

Beast FCD

BEAST FCD said...

Queenbee

If you wish to be "pro-life", try doing the following:

1. Go to a cemetery with your folks and hold hands to prevent corpses from being buried.

2. Visit a third world nation and feed the poor and the dying.

3. Demonstrate against sending soldiers to war.

4. Engineer crops, like Norman Borlaug to triple food crops to prevent starvation.

Going bananas over abortion won't do a thing because people will go for abortion regardless whether its legal or not, and you will notice that it is invariably the religious folks who know nuts about contraception who inevitably have to go under the knife.

Beast FCD

John Bunyan

To be saved is to be preserved in the faith to the end. 'He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' (Mt. 24:13) Not that perseverance is an accident in Christianity, or a thing performed by human industry; they that are saved 'are kept by the power of God, through faith unto salvation.' (1 Pet. 1: 3-6) But perseverance is absolutely necessary to the complete saving of the soul…. He that goeth to sea with a purpose to arrive at Spain, cannot arrive there if he be drowned by the way; wherefore perseverance is absolutely necessary to the saving of the soul.