C.H. Spurgeon

Sinners, let me address you with words of life; Jesus wants nothing from you, nothing whatsoever, nothing done, nothing felt; he gives both work and feeling. Ragged, penniless, just as you are, lost, forsaken, desolate, with no good feelings, and no good hopes, still Jesus comes to you, and in these words of pity he addresses you, "Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out."

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Thursday, September 13, 2007

Catholic Bishop Asks Christians to Embrace Idol Name for God

I can only imagine what the Pope is saying about this… [Article]

“Catholic churches in the Netherlands should use the name Allah for God to ease tensions between Muslims and Christians, says a Dutch bishop.”

“Tiny Muskens, the bishop of Breda, told the Dutch TV program "Network" Monday night he believes God doesn't mind what he is called, Radio Netherlands Worldwide reported.”

“"Someone like me has prayed to Allah yang maha kuasa (Almighty God) for eight years in Indonesia and other priests for 20 or 30 years," Muskens said. "In the heart of the Eucharist, God is called Allah over there, so why can't we start doing that together?"”

Does this heretic (one neither Christian nor Muslim) realize that the Christian God and the Muslim Allah do not share the same attributes (by majority) to even assume the two are the same? I usually refrain from such a title (heretic), but by all accounts what this Muskens is saying, clearly fits the definition, both to the Christian and to the Muslim.

“However, a survey published today in the Netherlands' largest newspaper, De Telegraaf, showed 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled oppose the bishop's view, the Associated Press reported.”

Maybe this Muskens should sit down and start with Genesis and continue to Revelation, and then decide if God can still be called Allah.

17 comments:

evelyn h. said...

Interesting article. I would think that there would be a better reason to call him Yahweh than anything else.

Also, think about this and correct me where my thinking goes awry: if the Jews were the earliest keepers of scripture, and if the Muslims and Christian scriptures mostly part ways at the Isaac/Ishmael story, would it not stand to reason that the earliest Muslim scriptures were written in Hebrew? Therefore, wouldn't the earliest name for God also be "Yahweh" for a Muslim?

I'd be curious to find out what language their original manuscripts were written in.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

The Koran (Qur’ān) was written in Arabic, but apparently there is some discussion as to what style or type, whether classical Arabic or Syrio-Aramic.

Muslims say Muhammad received the verses from God, by Gabriel, and his followers memorized or wrote them down. Apparently numerous versions of his revelations circulated after his death in 632, but "They claim that first Abu Bakr ordered its compilation and then Uthman ordered the collection and ordering of this mass of material circa 650-656. These scholars point to many attributes of the Qur'ān as indicative of a human collection process that was extremely respectful of a miscellaneous collection of original texts."

Tim

evelyn h. said...

Thanks for replying. I went looking right before you posted this morning, and what I found was interesting. I went to a Muslim site and pulled this off the header:

"If you need to know the history of the bible by historical and authentic sources, I advise you as the Muslims or Non-Muslims of today to seek authentic knowledge by exploring the links and materials carefully presented below. "

I pasted that because I was surprised to not only see the site fully speaking of the Qu'ran, but also to see the importance placed on the Bible. Which, in effect, goes back to my earlier thought:

Wouldn't the EARLIEST name for God still quite possible have been "Yahweh," even though it was changed to "Allah" with Mohammed's later writings?

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

I would assume the earliest name for God was "I AM". :)

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

I didn't get back to a computer till this morning. I'll see what I can find.

Tim

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

I found this:

"The first Name used for God in scripture is Elohim. In form, the word is a masculine plural of a word that looks feminine in the singular (Eloha). The same word (or, according to Rambam, a homonym of it) is used to refer to princes, judges, other gods, and other powerful beings. This Name is used in scripture when emphasizing God's might, His creative power, and his attributes of justice and rulership. Variations on this name include El, Eloha, Elohai (my God) and Elohaynu (our God)."

"The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Hei-Vav-Hei (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Hei-Yod-Hei (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Hei), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Hei-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord")."

http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

Tim

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Allah a moon god.

Tim

evelyn h. said...

Thank you for all the 'early name' information. The most helpful information of all - and the true crux of my question - is the link you provided regarding 'moon god.' I only briefly skimmed the article - since I'm supposed to be working :-) - but will more fully read it during my morning snack time. :-)

Thank you!

Evelyn

evelyn h. said...

Okay - deep breath. I read the moon god website. Honestly, I think it's bogus. The links go to bizarre things, such as, Microsoft is Satanic and Bill Gates is the devil. Well, that part may be true, but not necessarily in the context intended for the link. :-) Anyway, I don't think I believe this site is legit.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Oops! Guess I should have reviewed the site before posting the comment, but there are many sites pointing out that Allah, is indeed, simply a moon god.

BEAST said...

Splinter:

To avoid such faux pas, read first before you link up your post. You have a deep comprehension problem.

As for asking Muskens to "read the bible from Genesis to Revelation", have you done that yourself? Even in my church going days, I only went as far as 70%. Not even the whole bible.

Ask unto yourself what you ask upon others to do.

Beast

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Ask unto yourself what you ask upon others to do.

I believe there are many of us, in the blog world, that could mind this thought. Hmmm Beast...

Point is, for this Muskens to claim that persons can/need to use the name Allah in place of the Christian God, it is clear he has not read or understood much of Scripture, or has simply dismissed it.

BEAST said...

Actually, Allah means "God" in Arabic. In Chinese, God is denoted as "shen", which coincidentally is the word used by the Baptist Church which I used to attend in their Mandarin sermons. Are you saying that I can't use "shen" to replace Yahweh?

I don't think Muskens is wrong in any sense of the word. The reason why some christians are so rankled is probably the fact that he pandered to the Muslim masses, so I think you and the rest may have really missed the point.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

God, the only God, is not the god labeled as allah. Clearly Muskens fails to see this in Scripture or the Koran.

BEAST said...

Tim!

Allah means "God" in Arabic!

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Beast -

Allah means "God" in Arabic!

Und?

Allah is not the God of the Bible, of Creation, or of Christianity. Compare the God of Scripture and the god of the Koran, if you wish to argue they are one in the same.

BEAST said...

You still don't get it, and even now you still do not understand the dynamics behind the report.

Its ok. I don't expect too much from you.

Beast

BEAST said...

Allah is the same generalized word, just as you use God to describe the deity, and the Jews use Yahweh.

John Bunyan

To be saved is to be preserved in the faith to the end. 'He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' (Mt. 24:13) Not that perseverance is an accident in Christianity, or a thing performed by human industry; they that are saved 'are kept by the power of God, through faith unto salvation.' (1 Pet. 1: 3-6) But perseverance is absolutely necessary to the complete saving of the soul…. He that goeth to sea with a purpose to arrive at Spain, cannot arrive there if he be drowned by the way; wherefore perseverance is absolutely necessary to the saving of the soul.