C.H. Spurgeon

Sinners, let me address you with words of life; Jesus wants nothing from you, nothing whatsoever, nothing done, nothing felt; he gives both work and feeling. Ragged, penniless, just as you are, lost, forsaken, desolate, with no good feelings, and no good hopes, still Jesus comes to you, and in these words of pity he addresses you, "Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out."

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007

Personally Slaying Sinners Not Taught In the New Testament

Concerning the article of a “false prophet” killing a homosexual, an atheist writes this and:


[MB]
Oh, this murderer wasn't obeying the scripture?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them....
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them

Please explain to me how he wasn't following your murderous religion? Or are you one of these christians who thinks he knows which parts of the bible count and which don't? Because, you know, you're better qualified to say what should be in "god's written word" than god is.

And in the New Testament, gays and their supporters are worthy of death:

Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


This will be simple, far less than a full explanation, which many better writers with greater wisdom than I, have written.

Let me begin by saying that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” So, both the OT and NT is good for man to know, but it serves difference purposes and was written for specific persons and times.

The Levitical Law was setup for Moses and the children of Israel, and not for the New Testament church. For us, we study the Levitical Law portion of the Old Testaments for serveral reasons. One of those reasons is to identify what God calls sin.

This was a theocracy with God’s judgment of sin carried out by men. The law was to be upheld or it brought physical death and/or punishment to the children of Israel.

In the New Testament, all sin is still worthy of death, for it is written, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” There are many sins noted in Scripture, not limited to homosexuality. The works of the flesh will not allow people to inherit the kingdom of God, and sin will cause those to be thrown into the lake of fire.

All sin still deserves death, but God, through Jesus Christ, now through grace is longsuffering with His physical punishment. Death will still come and the second death will follow all those that reject Christ.

Simply because the Old Testament passing physical death upon the sins of people does not mean everyone could freely run around killing all kinds of sinners, nor is that what is done in the New Testament or today.

So sin has not changed, nor the penalty of sin, nor has the holiness of God against sin. The government of the United States of America is not the children of Israel and is not a theocracy. We, as Christians, are to obey the laws of the land, let our officials carry out the judgment of sin (although we do not judge as God does), and are to love and forgive not kill every person that is found to be a sinner. As the Law was a school master to teach us what is sin, Grace allows us mercy to bring us to repentance to God before judgment comes.

There is no contradiction with God, and to have a covenant with the children of Israel and a covenant with the Church does not at all mean He has changed His idea of sin or how it should be punished. You should personally thank God for being born during the age of Grace instead of the age of Law (whereby we all should be grateful), but rest assured the judgment is still death to all which sin and reject the only way to salvation, Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of such. At the judgment, all that are found unclean (those which have rejected Christ) will be given the second death, cast into the lake of fire.

15 comments:

BEAST said...

Tim, sometimes I seriously wonder: Do you really read the bible?

Oh, as usual, your "OT is not reverent" bullshit comes into play. Funny, then, when pastors like you carry around OTs and NTs when OTs are supposed to be "irrevelant"?

Regardless, I will play along:

Romans 1:26-32:

Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.

They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips

and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.

They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. -Romans Chapter 1:26-32

Notice the words "deserve death". Try running away from this one, dork. Gotcha!

BEAST said...

Frankly, dude, your "fire and brimstone" stories could perhaps scare the kids in your bible class, but us adult atheists have gone through this shit, & to be frank, I don't buy it.

The idea that someone deserves to be "cast into the lake of fire", for not believing in some stupid deity sounds as terrible and unjustifiable. It is stuff like this that really is beyond comprehension, and given the fact that Christians like yourself have to reconcile this grave injustice with a loving god makes this concept all the more impossible to swallow.

Your posts have actually given me great relief, actually. I am grateful for all those faithless books written by dan barker and Bertrand Russell who had helped me see the light of reason. If not, I would have ended up exactly like you: A half-baked moron who really knows nothing except uttering unintelligent gibberish.

BEAST said...

Oh, this was taken from my blog. Enjoy.

Top Ten List of Must-Kills, as Mandated by the Good Book:

1. Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

2. Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 )

3. Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

4. Adulterers
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

5. Fornicators
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

6. Nonbelievers (Inclusive of those who do not believe in Christianity)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )

7. False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )

8. Female non-Virgins on Wedding Nights (I think that includes virgin asses too.)
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

9. Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16)

10. Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Beast Boy,

Maybe you should read the Bible and read my post before running off on tangents. MB has already brought up this passage, and I clearly reference the point in my post.

“In the New Testament, all sin is still worthy of death, for it is written, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”” And, “All sin still deserves death, but God, through Jesus Christ, now through grace is longsuffering with His physical punishment.”

I am not saying that sin (including homosexuality) is not “worthy of death”, I am simply following the example of Christ (God in the flesh) and the New Testament Scripture concerning Grace and the way we are to act as Christians concerning unbelievers and sin.

If you would like the entirety of mankind to follow the Levitical Laws of the children of Israel while God was their government within the theocracy, please due voice that to the American government; or I guess in your case, the Singapore government.

As for me, and most Christians, we will obey Christ and the Scriptures concerning that which is given as instruction to the Church. We do not discount the OT, we just understand that we are not under the Levitical Law as the children of Israel were, although the sin which it speaks of is still worthy of death, it is not the responsiblity of the NT Christian to slaughter sinners in the name of God.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Again we have your abundance of posts clearly showing that the Truth actually does affect you. You simply show us where the depravity of man leaves us without Christ, when we choose to totally reject God and His Word as Truth.

BEAST said...

MB missed out verse 32.

The verse clearly says "deserve death". That means, even by NT standards, homosexuals and lesbians deserve death.

It is verses like this that will ultimately attract the attentions of pious christians to start murdering everyone on the streets.

Not to mention the OT, which you so very casually discredit, even though Jesus never explicitly denounce the OT.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

In all seriousness Beast, you have a problem when it comes to Scripture and the things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

BEAST said...

Frankly, as a avid reader of history as well as an ethnic Chinese, I find that us Chinese have a far superior culture than those incredibly ignorant dessert folks: Namely, the Jews and the Arabs.

Ancient cultures, such as the Aztecs, the Xia dynasty, the excellent hegemony of the Greek and Roman empires, far exceeds those of Jewish, Christian and Islamic cultures. The Aztecs were able to predict weather and the number of days per year by merely observing the stars. The Chinese, under Admiral Zheng He, were the first ancient maritime fleets to attempt maritime exploration.

But yet, it is these barbaric dessert tribes that the majority of the world turn to today for inspiration.

Alexander the Great would certainly turn in his grave, if he were alive today.

BEAST said...

I realize you did not post my Jesus quotes. I wonder why. Are you scared that your fans will realize that Jesus isn't that great after all???

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Beast,

It is simply because the majority of your comments are aimed to only cause more arguement, not really to converseration concerning the topics.

BEAST said...

You are intellectually bankrupt, that's all.

Bdawg, BWC said...

beast said...

"Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. -Romans Chapter 1:26-32

Notice the words "deserve death". Try running away from this one, dork. Gotcha!"

Beast beast beast, the death spoken of is eternal death. It is not in reference to mortal death. The idea is this behavior will not be tolerated in the Kingdom of Heaven, unless forgiveness is received and accpeted by the sinner via our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. THIS IS A REMINDER that desires of the flesh outside Holy matrimony are sinful and should be given up for the Lord.

MB said...

Try and weasel out of it all you like. The book says it, and you are doubting the book.

How can you possibly agree with a god who called for stoning for non-virgins? Have you ever seen a stoning? Read an account of one? Absolutely sickening. Humanity at its lowest, most disgusting, animal like behaviour. And you believe your god called for that activity?

Get real. It was the jealous old men who made up the stupid religion. They wanted an excuse to kill people that did things they didn't like.

MB said...

"Beast beast beast, the death spoken of is eternal death. It is not in reference to mortal death."

Oh I'm sorry, you are the authority on what the bible actually meant to say? Because it sure looks like mortal kill stab death right around there. It didn't say eternal punishment, or burning in a lake of fire etc did it? In fact going to hell is not really ever mentioned as death, more as eternal torment. Stretching death to mean living forever in hell is a pretty big stretch. But I guess you know better. Better than the bible. About what it means. Yep.

BEAST said...

Bdawg:

As MB reiterated, the "eternal death is not the same as physical death" excuse cuts no ice, especially when fundamentalists of Tim's variety are always insisting on the literal reading of the bible.

Sooner or later, someone's gonna obey it literally. And you can't even say that this murderer is wrong from a scriptural point of view.

John Bunyan

To be saved is to be preserved in the faith to the end. 'He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' (Mt. 24:13) Not that perseverance is an accident in Christianity, or a thing performed by human industry; they that are saved 'are kept by the power of God, through faith unto salvation.' (1 Pet. 1: 3-6) But perseverance is absolutely necessary to the complete saving of the soul…. He that goeth to sea with a purpose to arrive at Spain, cannot arrive there if he be drowned by the way; wherefore perseverance is absolutely necessary to the saving of the soul.