C.H. Spurgeon

Sinners, let me address you with words of life; Jesus wants nothing from you, nothing whatsoever, nothing done, nothing felt; he gives both work and feeling. Ragged, penniless, just as you are, lost, forsaken, desolate, with no good feelings, and no good hopes, still Jesus comes to you, and in these words of pity he addresses you, "Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out."

Comment Policy: No profanity or blasphemy will be posted. You do not have to agree, but if you would like your comment posted, you will have to adhere to the policy.


Tuesday, May 29, 2007

Creatures Desire To Be The Creator

Science (are at least the article writer) has almost gotten it right about creation in a recent article talking about making synthetic humans for the future.

“It last happened about 3.6 billion years ago a tiny living cell emerged from the dust of the Earth. It replicated itself, and its progeny replicated themselves, and so on, with genetic twists and turns down through billions of generations. Today every living organism—every person, plant, animal and microbe—can trace its heritage back to that first cell.”

The reason I said “almost gotten it right about creation” is because they do admit that creation came from the “dust of the Earth”. Scripture teaches, “the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” [Genesis 2:7]

Where they miss it is that it was not just “a tiny living cell” that emerged all by itself, but entire fully developed mature creations by God.

It is no wonder that DNA is similar throughout humans and animals, for God was our Creator.

The fall of mankind came when they saw the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden, which it gave them the desire to make one wise and to become as gods knowing good and evil.

Not really much has changed today, for man is still plagued with three basic issues [1 John 2:16]:

1 - the lust of the flesh
2 - the lust of the eyes
3 - the pride of life

Man still wants to deny there is any God, but self.

The next step is the desire to produce a synthetic “species” so that science can say, “We are your god”.

“Scientists in the last couple of years have been trying to create novel forms of life from scratch. They've forged chemicals into synthetic DNA, the DNA into genes, genes into genomes, and built the molecular machinery of completely new organisms in the lab—organisms that are nothing like anything nature has produced.”

So forget God, forget Mother Nature, forget evolution, man says “I will create life! - Well, by using what I can find around the lab, because I haven’t figured out how God did it in the beginning yet.”

36 comments:

BEAST said...

Perhaps you might want to check up the DNA structure between a worm and a chimp. You might be in for a rude awakening.

BEAST said...

Since you love to attack science so much, I have taken the liberty of debunking Noah and his stupid putty ark:
http://atheisthaven.blogspot.com/2007/05/noahs-ark-flight-of-supernatural-lunacy.html

Feel free to comment.

BEAST said...

Hmm, funny thing you mention this alongside Evolution:

1 - the lust of the flesh
2 - the lust of the eyes
3 - the pride of life

In any case, lust is a good thing. Without lust, I wouldn't be able to have sex, and without sex, I cannot procreate, and therefore I will actually be disobeying the bible: "Go forth, and multiply."

Pride is a good thing. Just ask any soldier why he shines his boots all day till he sees his teeth on the shiny boot cap. Ask the boy scout why he is so darn eager to earn all his scout badges.

Without pride, all of us may have to go through life monotonously. You savvy?

BEAST said...

Actually, you are right on one thing: Science does indeed play the role of God.

When humans don't understand the nature of a certain phenomena, we attribute it to gods and demons. As science begins to unravel the truth about the strange phenomena around us, it replaces this myth.

Imagine a Christian living in a plague ravaged European city. He is going to believe that Man has incurred God's wrath. Science, however, tells an entirely different story altogether.

When a parent sends a child to the doctor, the doctor is actually challenging God. Think about it. God inflicts disease upon the child to kill him or her. The doctor defies god by curing him or her.

Blasphemy? Hell yeah, and its all good!

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

I am not attacking science, I am in disagreement (as there are also others WAY smarter than I) as to there being no Creator and that everything has evolved from a single cell that "woke up" one day out of the dust of the Earth all by its little self and was smart enough to do what science cannot even do today with all of their technology. Namely, produce life through random chaos.

As for lust you are incorrect. Without lust there would be no sin, yet there could still be pure love and pure sex between a husband and wife.

As for pride you are correct that we take pride in things we do and that helps us do a good job, but it also goes over board and causes us to believe we are smarter than the Creator.

----

"Imagine a Christian living in a plague ravaged European city. He is going to believe that Man has incurred God's wrath. Science, however, tells an entirely different story altogether."

Sorry you are incorrect. Science may explain the sickness, but it does not explain the supernatural part that may have played in the spreading of it.

Science can't even cure the common cold, all they can do is say you have it and take this.

"When a parent sends a child to the doctor, the doctor is actually challenging God. Think about it. God inflicts disease upon the child to kill him or her. The doctor defies god by curing him or her."

Again, incorrect. Sin causes disease, etc. so we can blame man. It is God who has developed remedies and medicines and placed that knowledge inside of man's head even though he rejects the Creator that has done so.

Isn't God good!

BEAST said...

Ha ha ha.

I can't believe how you can totally eschew common sense and logic.

I think your understanding of evolution is flawed. Evolution is not just about random permutations. It is about random genetic permutations refined by natural selection. Richard Dawkin's books explains that extensively, and I will recommend that you read them.

As for lust and sin, I think it is just stupid morons who try to demonize the idea of sex. The Romans and Greeks were quite brazen in their sexual expressions, and the abundance of near naked olympians in their revealing togas attest to that. And yet look at them. At their peaks, both the Romans and the Greeks were masters of the Old World.What sin, what punishment? Bullshit.

Science can't cure a common cold, but it sure can alleviate the symptoms, and in extreme cases, science can also help save you from the brink of death from flu. Can your bible do any better, or your stupid Jesus, for the matter?

Scientists are the ones creating cures, not God. If god exists, then surely he would have a hand in diseases, or at the very least, be guilty of not lending at least a helping hand.

You are just like a typical Christian. When something good happens, or is created by Science, you attribute it to god. When shit happens, you blame it on man's sins, imaginary demons, and science. What kind of logic is that?

BEAST said...

"The next step is the desire to produce a synthetic “species” so that science can say, 'We are your god'."

Erm, sorry to spoil your little circus, but science has already done exactly that and more.

The world's cloned sheep, was cloned well before the 21st century (somewhere in 1996-7, I think), man has been interbreeding and criss crossing animals for like, millennia (That is how we get donkeys, mules, ligers, tigons, domesticated cats, dogs, chihuahuas and so on.....).

Plants, such as hybrid orchids, have been cross pollinated to a point that if if you are a foreign dignity, you could even have a hybrid hibiscus named after you!

Creating new species is really nothing new.In fact, Man has been playing God for, well, I don't know, since the beginning of civilization?

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

In fact, Man has been playing God for, well, I don't know, since the beginning of civilization?

Exactly. Man does not want to recognize a Creator larger than themselves. The problem with man is they are unable to create something on their own, they have to use what God has already put here at their disposal.

Infact, apparently man isn't even as smart as that one cell that caused itself to live while jumping out of the dust to start the living process. Hmmm...

Harsh speaking and name calling proves nothing but a desire to have people agree or bow out from conversation.

Your continued desire of macroevolution proof from fossil is flawed. Fossils proved what did exist, not species to species jumps. Man has decided/chosen what fossil they assume relate to each other as in species to species jump, but it is still relative and not absolute proof.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

"You are just like a typical Christian. When something good happens, or is created by Science, you attribute it to god. When shit happens, you blame it on man's sins, imaginary demons, and science."

lol - Science does not always produce "good" things nor does it have all the answers even you seek.

Are you the typical atheist that denies the supernatural and miracles that science cannot explain simply because you refuse to acknowledge a Creator greater than yourself?

Sure God allows bad things to happen, but He has made a remedy for sin through His Son Jesus Christ.

Your science and natural selection allows bad things to happen and you have no problem trusting in them.

BEAST said...

Hmm. The "God allows bad things to happen" argument cuts no ice, when you consider the supposed trinitarian qualities of God: Omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.

Does Science provide all the answers? Hell no. But it is the closest thing we have in the pursuit of truth.

As for natural selection, it is a natural process of elimination and assimilation. Is it brutal? Yes. Loving? No one says it is. Factual and observable? Definitely.

BEAST said...

Fossils as stand-alones do not indicate evolution. It is only when fossils are placed alongside each other that a evolutionary pattern emerges.

With this data, we then begin to examine the species alive, and the real evidence of microevolution begins to emerge.

Gathering this information with those we have from carbon dating and DNA sequencing, there is not a shred of doubt that evolution exists.

Even you agree that microevolution is a fact. How then can you disagree with evolution?

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

The "God allows bad things to happen" argument cuts no ice, when you consider the supposed trinitarian qualities of God: Omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.

You take issue with this for two reasons: [1] You deny faith, and [2] you deny the existence of God.


[natural selection] Factual and observable? - Miracles and the supernatural are factual and observable, but you simply discount them as science just hasn't explained them yet.


Fossils as stand-alones do not indicate evolution. It is only when fossils are placed alongside each other that a evolutionary pattern emerges.

Whose to say they haven't placed a different species or type in a row simply because they believe it is the evolutionary process of the current species/type they are working with? There is no absolute way to know is there?


Even you agree that microevolution is a fact. How then can you disagree with evolution?

To believe that species can/do adjust vary etc. is totally different than believing species become different species or that every animal including mankind has come from a single cell that sprang to life from dust.

So believing in faith and that God created us from dust is crazy, but believing in a single cell coming alive on its own and evolving over millions and millions of years into what we have today from dust is not? lol

Science has not proven macroevolution species to species jumps. Macroevolution is not an absolute truth.

BEAST said...

Like I have reiterated many times, the proof is quite in abundance. The problem with creationists is they simply are not bothered to check up with the latest scientific updates.

Miracles can be witnessed and observable? Oh lordy....give me a break. I suggest you check with James Randi, the great debunker and atheist who helped debunked countless religious frauds who claim to perform miracles.......does peter popoff ring a bell?

Like I said, you believe in micro evolution and not macroevolution, and the truth is, they are the same.

Micro evolution depicts changes in species over a short time, macro simply means a longer span of time. The only difference you choose one and not the other is because you believe in the young earth theory, which is equivalent to calling the earth flat.

So believing that God creating Man from dust is crazy? Yes. Believing that we evolve from single cells not? Yup, provided that a huge time gap be placed, up to the tune of at least a few billion years.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

** I saved your Noah comments before I deleted it here and will visit your blog again **

Miracles can be witnessed and observable? Oh lordy....give me a break.

I'll give you example. Today at prayer meeting a person was mentioned that had just went to two doctors that told them they had a large cyst that needed to be removed. Today he went in and there was no cyst to be found.


you believe in micro evolution and not macroevolution, and the truth is, they are the same.

You can claim this forever if you want, but it doesn't make it true. In species changes is not the same species to species jump.


So believing that God creating Man from dust is crazy? Yes. Believing that we evolve from single cells not? Yup, provided that a huge time gap be placed, up to the tune of at least a few billion years.

lol

BEAST said...

"Exactly. Man does not want to recognize a Creator larger than themselves. The problem with man is they are unable to create something on their own, they have to use what God has already put here at their disposal."

We are unable to create anything on our own? Depends on how you define "create".

If I am not mistaken, even your supernatural god needed dust to create us. Does that mean God is inferior?

Man has come a long, long way, my friend. We have eradicated smallpox, sent men to the moon, built many many machines that is quite astounding, to say the least.

We have come far, Mr Splinter. Why then, do you have to deride such accomplishments, and choose to sink mankind into some stupid archaic ideas of sin and self criticism?

Sure, Man has made mistakes.But we have made real progress, and much of it has to come from science and the waning influence of (gasp!) religion.

BEAST said...

"I'll give you example. Today at prayer meeting a person was mentioned that had just went to two doctors that told them they had a large cyst that needed to be removed. Today he went in and there was no cyst to be found."

I heard of this tales even from Multi Level Marketing agents peddling their bullshit. What is new?

Just a question though: Why can't God make amputees grow back their lost limbs?

I suggest this: Get your prayer group, get a handicapped man with a lost limb, and pray that he grows it back. If it works, get back to me, ok?


"you believe in micro evolution and not macroevolution, and the truth is, they are the same.

You can claim this forever if you want, but it doesn't make it true. In species changes is not the same species to species jump."

The concept of a "species jump", whatever that means....like I said, species change all the time, and evolution happens.

The problem is, you refuse to accept macroevolution because you believe in a young earth. nothing else.

Lol? Believing that God created animals and Man.....how about a double Lol lol?

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

"If I am not mistaken, even your supernatural god needed dust to create us. Does that mean God is inferior?"

lol - God used the dust He created to create man, don't act like you don't know at least some of Bible.

"Man has come a long, long way, my friend. We have eradicated smallpox, sent men to the moon, built many many machines that is quite astounding, to say the least."

How much evil has man done and destroyed whether in the name of a god or not? How much bad as man created?

Man's morals have de-evolved and so has academics in public schools - history proves this.

"Sure, Man has made mistakes.But we have made real progress, and much of it has to come from science and the waning influence of (gasp!) religion."

This is what you fail to see, I (and Christians) are not totally against science. Scientist have indeed used their God given intellect to produce some awesome things that have made life easier, better, etc. - but when it comes to orgins they've messed the mark.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

I heard of this tales even from Multi Level Marketing agents peddling their bullshit. What is new?

You can call me a liar, but why would I? I would say nothing rather than lie when I know you want believe me anyway.

Just a question though: Why can't God make amputees grow back their lost limbs?

Why can't evolution?

Believing that God created animals and Man.....how about a double Lol lol?

Your logic and reasoning is flawed to believe a cell (that you cannot trace all the way to a true beginning) arised from dust (that you cannot trace all the way to a true beginning) is more intelligent than believing a God (that you cannot trace all the way to a true beginning) created all creation.

Another flaw is without absolutes, you can't say macroevolution is absolutely true nor can you say that you absolutelty know there is no God.

:)

BEAST said...

Whether god supposedly created dust is not the question: The thing is, even God needed raw materials to create something.......got my point?

Of course, man has done much evil for us to ponder about. Mass slaughters, religious bullshit....oh well. Sure, we could have done a better job, but hey, we are all humans!

At least with science, man has savaged that bit of humanity and turned it into a worthy enterprise. Not bad, considering what with have achieved with modern science in 300 plus years.

As for morals, I actually think our morals have improved! We abolished slavery and apartheid. We are more tolerant towards minority groups, such as atheists, gays, and so on.We have more compassion in the sense that nations can actually group together to save another troubled nation (that may not be in each and every case), and with the advent of the information edge, we are all more well posed than ever to act accordingly to circumstances.

BEAST said...

"This is what you fail to see, I (and Christians) are not totally against science. Scientist have indeed used their God given intellect to produce some awesome things that have made life easier, better, etc. - but when it comes to orgins they've messed the mark."

I think it is not me who have missed the mark. You simply choose the science you want to believe in to suit into that narrow minded worldview of yours.

As for origins, there remains to be a lot of questions left unanswered, but that does not mean we substitute what we do not know with bullshit jargon such as "miracles", "gods" or the like.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

"The thing is, even God needed raw materials to create something.......got my point?"

That is a misconception on your part. Read Gen. 1, God spoke creation into existance.

"Not bad, considering what with have achieved with modern science in 300 plus years."

What is 300 plus years but a speck in millions and millions of years. Too bad it took us so long to evolve. lol

"As for morals, I actually think our morals have improved!"

Crime is up, Women are treated with less respect, adults are treated with less respect, suicide, peer pressure, etc.

BEAST said...

Crime is up? Hmm. That depends on where you live. In my place, crime has actually gone down....

Women treated with less respect? Hell, they have equal rights to man, rights to vote, women's suffrage and all the stuff that they hadn't had in the past...which part of the respect are you talking about?

Peer pressure? Hell, everyone's through that phrase, so what does that have to do with morals???

Well, evolution is a painstaking process, but really how does that link up with the Enlightenment Age & the Industrial Revolution? Evolution refers to biological change, while the other two are social upheavals. Do you even understand what you are laughing about? Cos I sure as hell don;t.

BEAST said...

Yeah yeah, I know Genesis. But the thing is he did require dust to create man. So?

BEAST said...

Evolution can't make for lost limbs?

Not entirely true, that is. Chop off the tail of a lizard, and it grows back. Some animals have evolved to have this capability, as an escape mechanism.

Like I said, don't try to evade the question by running to evolution.

IF YOUR STUPID GOD IS SO FREAKING POWERFUL, WHY CAN'T HE MAKE HANDICAPPED PEOPLE GROW BACK LIMBS?

Answer this. I am not letting you get away with this.

BEAST said...

"Your logic and reasoning is flawed to believe a cell (that you cannot trace all the way to a true beginning) arised from dust (that you cannot trace all the way to a true beginning) is more intelligent than believing a God (that you cannot trace all the way to a true beginning) created all creation."

It takes more than mere dust for the first cell on Earth to generate.. Go read up your facts before I have to insult you again.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

So you believe crime is down from a hundred years ago? Women used to be treated kind, not vial spoken too, not cat-called, etc. People doing immoral things pressure those to join in that normally would not. I was laughing about evolution because if we could have evolved into human beings quicker just think how much further we could be today with science.

Granted lizards lose their tail (they also lose their limbs that don't grow back and then their descendants are born without them - hahaha) and another one grows, but doesn't it grow back black without the ability to change colors like before? Maybe I am wrong, but I have seen quite a few green lizards with black tails. Maybe we could splice their DNA with human DNA so we could grow back black limbs if our limbs were cut off - but it may only produce people with tails. lol

IF YOUR STUPID GOD IS SO FREAKING POWERFUL, WHY CAN'T HE MAKE HANDICAPPED PEOPLE GROW BACK LIMBS? - Evade the question? lol The answer is simple. He chose not to in His design.

It takes more than mere dust for the first cell on Earth to generate. Go read up your facts before I have to insult you again.

Maybe you should reread the article, I was simply using what the article stated, as I put in my post, here it is again: "“It last happened about 3.6 billion years ago a tiny living cell emerged from the dust of the Earth. It replicated itself, and its progeny replicated themselves, and so on, with genetic twists and turns down through billions of generations. Today every living organism—every person, plant, animal and microbe—can trace its heritage back to that first cell.”"

BEAST said...

Apparently your history is not up to scratch.

Well over a century ago, many countries, including the good ole USA , didn't allow women to vote. In countries such as China, women have no say in almost everything, and that they would have to bound their feet so that they could satisfy the foot fetishes of their husbands.

In fact, feminism arose from the 19th century because women were so ill treated - they didn't have the same rights as men.

I don't know which planet you came from (Mars maybe?) But the idea that women are more illtreated today doesn't make sense, unless you are talking about places like Afghanistan.

Ok, back to the lizard thing. You ask me why evolution does not give the replacement limb option, to which I provided one. As for humans replacing lost limbs, we haven't evolved with that capability.

Funny thing is, if your God chooses not to help amputees grow back limbs, why then would he be interested in mundane things like removing cysts from bodies? Is he limited by his capabilities? Or just maybe, he hates people with lost limbs? Care to answer that?

If anything else, the first cell probably didn't emerge from "dust", it most likely emerged from the oceans, because water is life.

One more thing: I feel you are losing your plots, and everytime I post I feel more glad that I have lost my baptist faith, the same stupid faith you are holding.

And the noah's ark thing. I am still waiting for your reply.

BEAST said...

"I was laughing about evolution because if we could have evolved into human beings quicker just think how much further we could be today with science."

You seem to laugh at things I don't seem to be laughing about. Is it because you are stark mad, or that I lack a sense of humor (Funny I never thought I lacked it).

Try to conduct yourself in a logical manner, or I might feel the need to insult you again (Something which I only do to people or things which make no sense and do not respect themselves).

I think you know what I mean. I need not say more.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

You are a proud one aren't you.

BEAST said...

Indeed, I am.

Unlike you, I deem certain desires and emotions logical and permissive.

Pride is a good thing. I am not afraid to admit that.

BEAST said...

"IF YOUR STUPID GOD IS SO FREAKING POWERFUL, WHY CAN'T HE MAKE HANDICAPPED PEOPLE GROW BACK LIMBS? "

I said I wasn't going to let you get away with this one.

You claim that this apparatus wasn't included in his design apparatus. Explain why. Why then, would he bother with miracles such as taking tumours and cysts and "curing" fevers, when he doesn't do a damn thing for amputees?

Go on. Answer it. you won't get away with this.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Your overwhelming pride in your own wisdom blinds you to the Truth.

It is not that God CANNOT but that He has CHOSEN NOT too.

I could simply ask you why evolution cannot allow mankind to grow back limbs and you have no better answer.

BEAST said...

Simple: Because we weren't simply encoded with the genes.

But again, you missed the whole point: Evolution was never about benevolence. No one said evolution was perfect to any degree: Its just the way how Mother Nature works.

That, however, cannot be said of religion. You claim that a deity somehow "loves" mankind, to the extent that he would cure Man of his ailments, such as cyst removal and well, other forms of minor cures.

So my question is, why can't God heal amputees?

Stop running away from the question by deviating into evolution. I DEMAND AN ANSWER.

BEAST said...

Where is my answer Tim? WHERE's MY ANSWER!!!!!?????

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

In the mind and power of God.

Tim

BEAST said...

Sigh. You might just as well say you don't know.

Beast

John Bunyan

To be saved is to be preserved in the faith to the end. 'He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' (Mt. 24:13) Not that perseverance is an accident in Christianity, or a thing performed by human industry; they that are saved 'are kept by the power of God, through faith unto salvation.' (1 Pet. 1: 3-6) But perseverance is absolutely necessary to the complete saving of the soul…. He that goeth to sea with a purpose to arrive at Spain, cannot arrive there if he be drowned by the way; wherefore perseverance is absolutely necessary to the saving of the soul.