C.H. Spurgeon

Sinners, let me address you with words of life; Jesus wants nothing from you, nothing whatsoever, nothing done, nothing felt; he gives both work and feeling. Ragged, penniless, just as you are, lost, forsaken, desolate, with no good feelings, and no good hopes, still Jesus comes to you, and in these words of pity he addresses you, "Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out."

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Thursday, May 10, 2007

What Do Theists and Atheists Have In Common?

I believe I have found what atheists, theists, and any other 'ists' seem to have in common.

None of us very much like our beliefs/thoughts/ideas/convictions questioned, and we don't mind telling the offender so.

I wonder if there is really such a thing as "agree to disagree".
I doubt we could agree there is such.


Sure we say, "We will just not talk to the other side", yet we still spend our time talking about the other side. So we really haven't agreed to disagree, but have decided to disagree behind their back so we don't have to listen to their point. This way we get to talk and make fun of them without any recourse or test of what we are saying. This helps us to feel free to sling railing accusations without actual support or facts to back up our claims.

Interesting...

Side/their/them - simply meaning anyone we personally disagree with.

Just a tid-bit to think about.

update: Hmmm... What about an agnostic? I have never spoken to one that I know of. Would they hold this common that us 'ists' do?

8 comments:

L>T said...

I believed what I said when I said there are two sides to every coin. I think your own scriptures means the same when it says, Don't judge, because you might be judged?
I think If you understand this principle, you can indeed "agree to disagree".

Funny, we even call our opponents "the other side".

Debates & arguments between atheists/agnostics/secular humanists & theists get heated because both sides are passionate & sincere about their subject.

Side/their/them - simply meaning anyone we personally disagree with. This is true. & we run up against this all our lives. How we each deal with it shows our character & maturity.

This is the coin I want to be the other side of:
I have my own mind & my own ideas, I occasionally examine my motives, I have the desire to uplift humankind & my self to fullest potentual. I will assume you have the same desire.
In trying to understand Christianity from the perspective I have now, I am ultimately trying to understand myself & you, too. I will assume this is your goal also.

L>T said...

I just happen to be an agnostic secular humanist, what do you want to know?

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Thanks l>t,

I am actually glad to hear that you are an agnostic and not an athesit. Why? Simply because of the definitions of the two terms.

As for "what do you want to know?"

As in my post it seems to me the little I have conversed with atheists here and there and the more time I have spent with theists - neither side much likes there views, etc. called into questioned or questioned by confrontation. I was wondering if agnostics were the same.

Now I am speaking in general terms here and not specially each individual.

L>T said...

I can't speak for anyone but my self.
I have a humanist agenda. I relate to atheists much more then Christians. there is alot of bandying about with definitions & I don't even mind being compared to atheists & even some definitions of atheism include me but my philosophy is agnostic/secular/ humanist.

I think Tim, the people you are talking to (the atheists) are very passionate about their beliefs & the Christians that debate them are too. I know I am about mine.

As far as definitions I always try to use the dictionary, I like simple explainations so agnostic is closest to how I feel about...??? what's out there so to speak. I try to never assume to have the answers.
i'll tell you more but i have to go to work.
later :)

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

"very passionate about their beliefs"

I agree, so is it this passion that seperates us into almost not being able to listen to or even consider the opposite of what we believe?

I am not talking about just religious things, but in life itself.

And not necessarily converting one to another, but simply listening to what the other has to say before harshly telling them they are wrong.

Do any of us actually listen at all, or is it simply blah blah blah till we can get our words in again?

L>T said...

so is it this passion that seperates us into almost not being able to listen to or even consider the opposite of what we believe?

It's some kind of emotions for sure. I think sometimes it's fear on both sides. It's sometimes anger. Hurt feelings. we don't get emotional over things we aren't passionate about.


Do any of us actually listen at all, or is it simply blah blah blah till we can get our words in again? Once again I can only judge myself & give my opinion.

In my opinion & experience, most of us have moments of inmaturity, most of us let our emotions get the best of us, most of us are foolish sometimes, etc...Sometimes it gets in the way of listening.

I feel you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing. You are trying to get past the anger & the blah blah blah. to learn something I mean you wouldn't be mulling it over if you weren't?

I think It should always come down to our own motivation, anyway.

Speaking of, you notice how many times when arguing people question each others motivations? This is a place we can make alot of assumptions, based on????whatever.

For instance, I don't really know what your motivation is for talking to me. I could assume since you are a Christian, a passionate one, a motivated one...that your goal is to convert me( that would be a preconcieved notion). I could look for that motive in everything you say, I could even assume it's in your future plans. But, I'm making a choice not to assume any of that, I'm going to assume your motivation is to understand me & yourself & ultimately others.

On the other hand you make basically the same choices.

IMO, I might as well assume the best because if didn't I wouldn't learn anything anyway.


The thing is no matter what you or I assume, I know what my motivations are & you know yours.

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

I believe you are right in what you say l>t.

And you are right, here in this post I am not motivated to convert you. I realize you have been in church before so there is probably not much I could say (if any) that you haven't heard already.

I was interested in your thoughts, to help me understand the "other side" and I appreciate your comments.

BEAST said...

I see no major difference between and agnostic and an atheist.

Agnosticism was a term coined by Thomas Huxley (meaning "no knowledge of"), when he wanted to translate his philosophical ideas as a godless creed, yet not wishing to associate himself with atheists for reasons which historicans may be better placed to answer.

The basics of both are the same: Agnostics do not exert claims on the existence of God, while atheists do not belief in gods due to the absence of proof. Both are united by a uniform non-belief.

John Bunyan

To be saved is to be preserved in the faith to the end. 'He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' (Mt. 24:13) Not that perseverance is an accident in Christianity, or a thing performed by human industry; they that are saved 'are kept by the power of God, through faith unto salvation.' (1 Pet. 1: 3-6) But perseverance is absolutely necessary to the complete saving of the soul…. He that goeth to sea with a purpose to arrive at Spain, cannot arrive there if he be drowned by the way; wherefore perseverance is absolutely necessary to the saving of the soul.